Not For Me, JLC

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Not For Me, JLC

Postby tiktok » May 27th 2015, 9:19pm

As I have stated on several occasions JLC is my favorite name brand. They have made haute horology accessible to me and many others who could not afford such amazing pieces from other brands that make them only in precious metals or have so hyped up their brand name that even their entry point is around 20K. Also, I don't like crosses on anything I wear and that means no VC, no PP.

JLC's newest marketing ploy is its "Open a Whole New World" which features a strange mix of superstars from science, sports and film. The idea is to merge beauty and lifestyle via beautiful photography and sell more watches.
http://www.luxurydaily.com/jaeger-lecoultre-campaign-highlights-diverse-lifestyles-to-connect-with-consumers/

Unfortunately for me one of the ambassadors they chose was Dr J Craig Venter, a genetic scientist with deep ties to Monsanto, which owns major assets of his genomic corporation. In my home we have very strong concerns with Monsanto as do many, many people around the world and I am bitterly disappointed that they chose someone who is such a hot button persona as their ambassador. For me it means no more new JLCs which is a good thing financially for me. I know they could not give a rat's ass about losing my business but I actually was quoted in a major magazine when I stated that Jaeger was the most accessible and democratic brand of the big guys.

Anyway, have at me, my PTSD is pretty minimal right now but I do feel I have to speak out on a subject that is close to my heart. Perhaps if I post this on TZ it will fulfill my superego's desire to join the ranks of the banned there.
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Re: Not For Me, JLC

Postby biglove » May 27th 2015, 10:02pm

If PP would ship me a Nautilus I wouldn't give two flying fucks if they employed pedophiliac priests as brand reps

On the other hand, if I am paying the $20K, they sure as hell better hire the Dali Lama and pay that bald, orange house coat and pajama wearing bastard some bank!

;)

I understand where you are coming from but if you like their watches and can afford them, buy them.

Monsanto is no more evil than a host of defense contractors, pharmaceutical corps and petroleum conglomerates. Corporations are evil. Period.

Just because the guy is funded by Monsanto doesn't take away from his preeminence as a scientist.
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Re: Not For Me, JLC

Postby conjurer » May 27th 2015, 10:07pm

It appears that bedlam has done his job here very well. The whole forum is populated by a bunch of fucking communists!
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Re: Not For Me, JLC

Postby tiktok » May 27th 2015, 10:13pm

conjurer wrote:It appears that bedlam has done his job here very well. The whole forum is populated by a bunch of fucking communists!


I'm a French socialist, I vote left but have a mistress and an Audi R8.
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Re: Not For Me, JLC

Postby Hawk » May 27th 2015, 10:45pm

In some real ways the folks opposed to Monsanto brought it upon themselves. By super-regulating the industry they have assured that only large corporations can navigate the bureaucracy. "Anti-GMO" and "anti-mega corp" are phrases that should never occur in a sentence unless accompanied by an exclusive or.

Same as the "holy fuck we're burning coal!" crowd has a too large contingent that stridently opposes nuclear.

But I suppose that many in my generation that were frightened by the Paul Ehrlich bogeyman in the 20th century were delighted to see his dire predictions proven wrong repeatedly and relentlessly. And what was the major factor that made Paul Ehrlich the poster child for fucked up scary predictions? Mostly a failure to account for massive improvements in agricultural yield. It is for this reason that some of my tribe wonder if those that hate Monsanto had as an alternative hating that portion of mankind that would have been dead without their like. Of course the anti-GMO crowd is not comprised of bunch of heartless fucks so none will see the connection between "fuck Monsanto" and "fuck humanity".

Or rather most won't see it.

http://io9.com/5973017/a-huge-step-forw ... -the-enemy

excerpt wrote:Today at the Oxford Farming Conference, outspoken environmental advocate Mark Lynas publicly apologized for his anti-GMO stance over nearly two decades. Lynas is best known for spearheading anti-GMO campaigns in the UK during the 1990s, which led to a great deal of unfounded hysteria over the possible ill effects of GMO crops on consumers and the environment. Now, Lynas says he's sorry for what he did, and that he's "discovered science" and become "a better environmentalist."


I'm ok with labeling standards and the rights of first world ivory tower types to avoid GMO and / or big Agra but to impose their views on what might otherwise be starving people in the third world displays the same short-sightedness that let some in the first world decide, on behalf of some in the third world, that malaria was preferable to DDT.

It is said that the path to hell is paved with good intentions. Perhaps so but the good intentions are merely layered on the foundation of unintended consequences.

If spokesmodels that offend me put me off from buying a watch, as is the case with 90% of Hollywood types, I doubt I would buy many watches. Monsanto and their ilk participated in making Paul Ehrlich's predictions of massive starvation by the year 2000 look like the ravings of a lunatic. If, in turn, they turn into mega corporations and ass-rape some for preferring starvation then, just possibly, it's what we deserve.
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Re: Not For Me, JLC

Postby jason_recliner » May 27th 2015, 11:31pm

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Re: Not For Me, JLC

Postby bedlam » May 28th 2015, 12:12am

Hawk wrote:In some real ways the folks opposed to Monsanto brought it upon themselves. By super-regulating the industry they have assured that only large corporations can navigate the bureaucracy. "Anti-GMO" and "anti-mega corp" are phrases that should never occur in a sentence unless accompanied by an exclusive or.

Same as the "holy fuck we're burning coal!" crowd has a too large contingent that stridently opposes nuclear.

But I suppose that many in my generation that were frightened by the Paul Ehrlich bogeyman in the 20th century were delighted to see his dire predictions proven wrong repeatedly and relentlessly. And what was the major factor that made Paul Ehrlich the poster child for fucked up scary predictions? Mostly a failure to account for massive improvements in agricultural yield. It is for this reason that some of my tribe wonder if those that hate Monsanto had as an alternative hating that portion of mankind that would have been dead without their like. Of course the anti-GMO crowd is not comprised of bunch of heartless fucks so none will see the connection between "fuck Monsanto" and "fuck humanity".

Or rather most won't see it.

http://io9.com/5973017/a-huge-step-forw ... -the-enemy

excerpt wrote:Today at the Oxford Farming Conference, outspoken environmental advocate Mark Lynas publicly apologized for his anti-GMO stance over nearly two decades. Lynas is best known for spearheading anti-GMO campaigns in the UK during the 1990s, which led to a great deal of unfounded hysteria over the possible ill effects of GMO crops on consumers and the environment. Now, Lynas says he's sorry for what he did, and that he's "discovered science" and become "a better environmentalist."


I'm ok with labeling standards and the rights of first world ivory tower types to avoid GMO and / or big Agra but to impose their views on what might otherwise be starving people in the third world displays the same short-sightedness that let some in the first world decide, on behalf of some in the third world, that malaria was preferable to DDT.

It is said that the path to hell is paved with good intentions. Perhaps so but the good intentions are merely layered on the foundation of unintended consequences.

If spokesmodels that offend me put me off from buying a watch, as is the case with 90% of Hollywood types, I doubt I would buy many watches. Monsanto and their ilk participated in making Paul Ehrlich's predictions of massive starvation by the year 2000 look like the ravings of a lunatic. If, in turn, they turn into mega corporations and ass-rape some for preferring starvation then, just possibly, it's what we deserve.


Its not a zero sum game. Being concerned about Monsanto's seriously questionable behaviour does not make one silly or oblivious to the science or benefits of GMO.

Regulation is not the problem. You have to regulate where corporate bastardry has required it - and it has. The communities food safety is not something that can be left in the hands of the board at Monsanto.
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Re: Not For Me, JLC

Postby Hawk » May 28th 2015, 2:18am

bedlam wrote:Its not a zero sum game. Being concerned about Monsanto's seriously questionable behaviour does not make one silly or oblivious to the science or benefits of GMO.

Regulation is not the problem. You have to regulate where corporate bastardry has required it - and it has. The communities food safety is not something that can be left in the hands of the board at Monsanto.


I believe we've been down this road before wherein our basic disagreement is whether the push to regulate, which I am not saying is ill-advised but might have been ill-implemented at times, didn't prepare a fertile breeding ground for Monsanto by virtue of shutting out the smaller firms. It's pretty much an unprovable concept from either side.

I acknowledge that you're one of those rare birds that can and does separate the benefits of GMO from the excesses of Monsanto. We differ only on whether the occasionally hysterical lobbying of the late 20th century did or didn't make Monsanto inevitable by virtue of erecting barriers a startup GMO house could not hope to overcome.

I have leveled the charge that many that espouse the science of AGW act like the worst of creationist senate Republicans when it comes to denying the science behind GMOs but it is not a charge I level at the user known as Bedlam or, by the Conjurer nickname, Carl the Commie. While we disagree on a number of topics I have never found your position to be adopted from some platform as opposed to well thought out. I would concede that I don't see Monsanto as especially dangerous - they're a corporation which, as a sort of organism, behaves in predicable ways. Some of these should not be permitted to run rampant but I'm of the school that thinks a robust competitive environment can accomplish much of these measures better than a government being lobbied by Greenpeace which does not differ much from a government being lobbied by the insurance industry. Battling NGOs have become a part of life.

Perhaps the OP is another one that recognizes science is science and ethics are ethics but that's uncertain at this point. Dr J Craig Venter was also involved in the human genome project and longevity research. And though he and Monsanto share some goals it isn't clear that he's a Monsanto booster so much as simply a genetic scientist with strong views. Given that the PTSD is reported to be in remission or at least at low ebb it seems as good a time as any to explore the matter.

For good or ill, perhaps aided by a lazy media, "Monsanto" has become synonymous with "GMO crops". Of course they're not the same thing though a Venn diagram would show a lot of overlap.

Science suggests humans contribute to climate change and suggests that GMO crops have saved the lives of millions and that nuclear is a tool which might be deployed to lesson reliance on fossil fuels. Much like not all conservatives deny AGW science not all environmentalists deny GMO findings - but the odds tend to push climate deniers into the conservative camps and GMO deniers into the liberal camp. They're both denying science - sometimes vociferously so, but neither form of denialism is monolithic in those groups.
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Re: Not For Me, JLC

Postby bedlam » May 28th 2015, 3:25am

Fair points. I don't see Monsanto as evil. They are a corporation. Amoral by definition. Profit driven by law.

Amoral profit driven processes would not be trusted with anything important by a rational person. Even Taylor pre-supposed there would need to be a guiding hand in the market. I'd take Taylor's approach over the Boston School of Economics all day, every day.
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Re: Not For Me, JLC

Postby foghorn » May 28th 2015, 4:26am

Fuck brand ambassadors.
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Re: Not For Me, JLC

Postby Kahuna74 » May 28th 2015, 5:59am

Hawk wrote:In some real ways the folks opposed to Monsanto brought it upon themselves. By super-regulating the industry they have assured that only large corporations can navigate the bureaucracy. "Anti-GMO" and "anti-mega corp" are phrases that should never occur in a sentence unless accompanied by an exclusive or.

Same as the "holy fuck we're burning coal!" crowd has a too large contingent that stridently opposes nuclear.

But I suppose that many in my generation that were frightened by the Paul Ehrlich bogeyman in the 20th century were delighted to see his dire predictions proven wrong repeatedly and relentlessly. And what was the major factor that made Paul Ehrlich the poster child for fucked up scary predictions? Mostly a failure to account for massive improvements in agricultural yield. It is for this reason that some of my tribe wonder if those that hate Monsanto had as an alternative hating that portion of mankind that would have been dead without their like. Of course the anti-GMO crowd is not comprised of bunch of heartless fucks so none will see the connection between "fuck Monsanto" and "fuck humanity".

Or rather most won't see it.

http://io9.com/5973017/a-huge-step-forw ... -the-enemy

excerpt wrote:Today at the Oxford Farming Conference, outspoken environmental advocate Mark Lynas publicly apologized for his anti-GMO stance over nearly two decades. Lynas is best known for spearheading anti-GMO campaigns in the UK during the 1990s, which led to a great deal of unfounded hysteria over the possible ill effects of GMO crops on consumers and the environment. Now, Lynas says he's sorry for what he did, and that he's "discovered science" and become "a better environmentalist."


I'm ok with labeling standards and the rights of first world ivory tower types to avoid GMO and / or big Agra but to impose their views on what might otherwise be starving people in the third world displays the same short-sightedness that let some in the first world decide, on behalf of some in the third world, that malaria was preferable to DDT.

It is said that the path to hell is paved with good intentions. Perhaps so but the good intentions are merely layered on the foundation of unintended consequences.

If spokesmodels that offend me put me off from buying a watch, as is the case with 90% of Hollywood types, I doubt I would buy many watches. Monsanto and their ilk participated in making Paul Ehrlich's predictions of massive starvation by the year 2000 look like the ravings of a lunatic. If, in turn, they turn into mega corporations and ass-rape some for preferring starvation then, just possibly, it's what we deserve.


Monsanto, fuck them. I think Regan gave Monsanto a lot of power. They go a long way back in History. Here in Pittsfield in the 1930, or 40's they had a small little lake here on fire. I have the article somewhere. I will see if I can find it. They also made agent orange, which is now Roundup. They put farmers out of business, or force them with the governments help to only plant their seeds. Evil bastards at best. They also are linked to the Bees vanishing. Hawaii has been fighting hard to keep them out of the Islands. Seems like only the European Nations will stand up to them. Maybe because our Politician's are fucking them, or being fucked by them, sick bastards. Profit, profit, profit, at any cost I guess.
As far as a 20,000 watch, All of them can kiss my ass. I would spend that money on something I feel is better(more fun). When I was a kid a pair of Levi's were 14.00. Are they worth 50 bucks today, fuck no. Same with a watch. They use cheaper parts, And sell em like they are something special. To many nice watches for under 10,000 to waste more money than that. Just my thoughts on it. I hate hype :x
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Re: Not For Me, JLC

Postby foghorn » May 28th 2015, 6:11am

Eye lyke the minimaliminimist desine of the MoonsanTo mewseeum wArtch.
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Re: Not For Me, JLC

Postby Kahuna74 » May 28th 2015, 6:43am

foghorn wrote:Eye lyke the minimaliminimist desine of the MoonsanTo mewseeum wArtch.

I have been told if you wear it long enough, you will grow extra wrists. :twisted:
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Re: Not For Me, JLC

Postby Falstaff » May 28th 2015, 6:44am

tok, if you are truly going to "walk the walk", you'll not only not purchase any new LeCoultres, you'll get rid of the ones you have - preferably by donating them to an anti-whatever-it-is-that-you're-against organization - otherwise you run the risk of exhibiting the rankest sort of hypocrisy.
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Re: Not For Me, JLC

Postby codguy » May 28th 2015, 7:30am

Falstaff wrote:tok, if you are truly going to "walk the walk", you'll not only not purchase any new LeCoultres, you'll get rid of the ones you have - preferably by donating them to an anti-whatever-it-is-that-you're-against organization - otherwise you run the risk of exhibiting the rankest sort of hypocrisy.


That ^

Take a serious stand or be perceived as having absolutely no conviction going forward.
Otherwise ranting just to hear yourself (or attempt to generate some sort of bunny support) will go on deaf ears.

I know of a watch collector that railed against a certain brand with virtuoso, only to make additional follow-up purchases of the same manufacture. Dude lost credibility with many forum members.
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Re: Not For Me, JLC

Postby Airframer » May 28th 2015, 8:05am

I am an anti-whatever-it-is organization. Just putting it out there.
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Re: Not For Me, JLC

Postby Hawk » May 28th 2015, 8:24am

Kahuna74 wrote:Monsanto, fuck them. I think Regan gave Monsanto a lot of power. They go a long way back in History. Here in Pittsfield in the 1930, or 40's they had a small little lake here on fire. I have the article somewhere. I will see if I can find it. They also made agent orange, which is now Roundup. They put farmers out of business, or force them with the governments help to only plant their seeds. Evil bastards at best. They also are linked to the Bees vanishing. Hawaii has been fighting hard to keep them out of the Islands. Seems like only the European Nations will stand up to them. Maybe because our Politician's are fucking them, or being fucked by them, sick bastards. Profit, profit, profit, at any cost I guess.
As far as a 20,000 watch, All of them can kiss my ass. I would spend that money on something I feel is better(more fun). When I was a kid a pair of Levi's were 14.00. Are they worth 50 bucks today, fuck no. Same with a watch. They use cheaper parts, And sell em like they are something special. To many nice watches for under 10,000 to waste more money than that. Just my thoughts on it. I hate hype :x

As a minor point of order I would note that the distinguishing characteristic of Agent Orange was dioxin which is not in Roundup. Additionally Agent Orange wasn't solely produced for the DoD by Monsanto - Dow Chemical was another subcontractor.

I would suppose that, if you're going to hang Monsanto for participating in supplying DoD, you're going to have to put General Electric on your shit list for providing the re-entry vehicles for the Minuteman III. In fact consistency would probably demand that Boeing, Sylvania, Thiokol and a host of others take their turn in the barrel.

For some really interesting reading check out project crowbar where the fine folks of Adolf Coors were producing ceramic fuel elements for what was arguably one of the most indiscriminate and inhumane weapon systems ever conceived.

Monsanto certainly is one of those entities that people love to hate. And as is usual in such cases it causes a certain amount of bullshit overload. When you're bored sometime put "snopes Monsanto" into your favorite search engine and count up the number of discredited claims that are still circulated.
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Re: Not For Me, JLC

Postby Tzimisces » May 28th 2015, 10:32am

Hawk wrote: When you're bored sometime put "snopes Monsanto" into your favorite search engine and count up the number of discredited claims that are still circulated.

My favorite was "Monsanto Cucumbers Cause Genital Baldness".

Not sure if it is caused by ingesting or inserting.
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Re: Not For Me, JLC

Postby conjurer » May 28th 2015, 11:32am

momsqounto Alsew kilt all Those swamis In boll Paul, injaa GODAM it.
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Re: Not For Me, JLC

Postby jason_recliner » May 28th 2015, 12:16pm

foghorn wrote:Eye lyke the minimaliminimist desine of the MoonsanTo mewseeum wArtch.


Hehehe
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Re: Not For Me, JLC

Postby Hawk » May 28th 2015, 12:40pm

conjurer wrote:momsqounto Alsew kilt all Those swamis In boll Paul, injaa GODAM it.


They was knot smarmies. They was assbestoes workers at a Jimmy Hoffa Union Carbide plant. Iff'n they was smarmies they just woulda climbed up their cloths line ropes and go ...pOOf... then climb back down in Chair Noble New Clear Fishin' place in Russkies.
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Re: Not For Me, JLC

Postby Wasp » May 28th 2015, 2:00pm

Yea made some bad stuff. Had a plant in the Iron Bound section of Newark NJ. Some days everything was covered with a dust of some sort from the plant. Didn't give a shit. Agent Blue, Agent Purple, Agent Black. Made there also?? Short lived use, Still waiting for the 60 minute piece on this.
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Re: Not For Me, JLC

Postby 3Flushes » May 28th 2015, 3:07pm

codguy wrote:
Falstaff wrote:tok, if you are truly going to "walk the walk", you'll not only not purchase any new LeCoultres, you'll get rid of the ones you have - preferably by donating them to an anti-whatever-it-is-that-you're-against organization - otherwise you run the risk of exhibiting the rankest sort of hypocrisy.


That ^

Take a serious stand or be perceived as having absolutely no conviction going forward.
Otherwise ranting just to hear yourself (or attempt to generate some sort of bunny support) will go on deaf ears.

I know of a watch collector that railed against a certain brand with virtuoso, only to make additional follow-up purchases of the same manufacture. Dude lost credibility with many forum members.

That^

Hypocrisy of the highest order indeed, however, I'm not sure how that relates to a guy who's going to boycott a brand based on the accession of a repugnant ambassador. Why would such a man be a hypocrite by not disposing of purchases made prior to the retention of Venter, or, for all I know, purchases made before SWATCH purchased JLC? No problem with the deal here unless a JLC too good to refuse for some reason comes along.

Regardless of the true nature of Monsanto or the pros and cons of screwing with the genes of food, make no mistake about the man; Venter is as dark as he is intelligent. Got a good look at his act during the machinations that brought him to UCSD (his alma mater I believe); a flaming whore for the money of a polymorphic-perverse megalomaniac whose perceived prestige bestowed upon the campus keeps the Chinese and Indian tuition, and the research billions all flowin' in. So far, the UC's most controversial campus seems to be a good fit for a likewise mired figure head.

Dey doo trow de research monies at him doh, maan.
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Re: Not For Me, JLC

Postby tiktok » May 28th 2015, 3:32pm

It's amazing how an opinion goes viral. I don't really care to jump in the debate, I was just expressing my view and am at peace with it. I will say that defining what constitutes real science and what constitutes corporate best interests is a dilemma in our times. My father died from a huge mistake by a doctor who gave him 4 times the dose of Valtrex that a man on dialysis could handle and I witnessed the corporate coverup that ensued. My SO is in medicine and says: Doctors are like cats, they go out in the wild and bury their shit.
Here's a link to an interesting article that may or may not be scientific by your yardstick, but I found it illuminating. The FDA is entrenched in corporate interests so expecting any viewpoints outside the interests of pharma or agribusiness to be entertained and investigated is pretty unlikely.
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2282014
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Re: Not For Me, JLC

Postby jason_recliner » May 28th 2015, 3:40pm

I don't know much about that Venter chap but I think I am familiar with his ilk. Businessmen posing as scientists to garner credibility and foster a sense that they are furthering science and human endeavour. When actually all they are doing is trying to make money. Nasty pieces of work.

Not unlike capitalists trying to pose as bastions of fair, reasonable and critical thinking, come to think of it...
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