The Doxa controversy....

Asian Made & Swiss Asian watches

Re: The Doxa controversy....

Postby koimaster » January 1st 2011, 12:28pm

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Re: The Doxa controversy....

Postby eddiea » January 1st 2011, 1:29pm

koimaster wrote: <<\


Hey Alain....That Walca posting was indeed revealing ......
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Re: The Doxa controversy....

Postby Guest » January 1st 2011, 1:48pm

I've owned three and am in the middle of making a purchase of a GMT Sharkhunter right now. I've read all the issues but have never let it bother me, especially since no hard proof has ever been shown. As for the former employee, not sure if someone who was fired should be considered dependable assuming he's likely to have an axe or two to grind. In the end I'm sure if we knew the whole truth about the watch world in general we'd all have a different hobby.
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Re: The Doxa controversy....

Postby mrneddles » January 1st 2011, 2:05pm

DonBattles wrote:I've owned three and am in the middle of making a purchase of a GMT Sharkhunter right now. I've read all the issues but have never let it bother me, especially since no hard proof has ever been shown. As for the former employee, not sure if someone who was fired should be considered dependable assuming he's likely to have an axe or two to grind. In the end I'm sure if we knew the whole truth about the watch world in general we'd all have a different hobby.


I understand feeling the need for hard proof, but if it looks like a horse, runs like a horse, and it's on a farm, it's a horse.
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Re: The Doxa controversy....

Postby Guest » January 1st 2011, 2:31pm

Doxa might have built watches in the late 60's/early70's and they built them for a few other companies! Ownership has changed and about the the only thing that remains is the watch style. Buy them through Doxa own website (wont find them at local AD) and way too many fuckups have happened! Not sure if Longio makes the cases but who knows, most of the work is farmed out but you can say the same thing about TAG and in most cases a whole bunch more! Owned a TUSA1000 and sold it, seemed like a well built watch that kept great time and the company brings divers back to a simpler time and the guy writing the books about Dirk whats his name sure doesnt hurt! Until the Swiss Federation can change its guidelines your going to get guys squirting and humping legs selling watches made in China with Swiss Made on the dial!
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Re: The Doxa controversy....

Postby eddiea » January 1st 2011, 4:20pm

cali kid wrote: Until the Swiss Federation can change its guidelines your going to get guys squirting and humping legs selling watches made in China with Swiss Made on the dial!


True , still doesn't take away from the fact that those who decided to walk the line, are bound to step on the unethical side of the equation, in time it is so much bullshit people a whiling to take, inevitable credibility will go down the drain (as has happened with Invicta) and folks will eventually vote with their wallets....one thing is for sure the "new" Doxa, is no Doxa.
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Re: The Doxa controversy....

Postby RaiderFan » February 14th 2011, 5:22am

I never have warmed to the Doxa look so I had never done any research or bothered to check out any of the existing fora out there. As I was reading this thread I couldn't stop myelf from comparing what's happening with Doxa to the early stages of the Invicta mess. Maybe they should merge. InDoxa?
I've heard for years that a majority of Swiss companies have at least a few components made in the Far East. What I would love to see is a list compiled showing where components are sourced and how each company reaches it's 51% requirement. Is it true that there are less than 20 Swiss brands who can claim 100% Swiss manufacture?
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Re: The Doxa controversy....

Postby boscoe » February 14th 2011, 5:42am

robert516 wrote:Reading through the various threads reminds me of the goings on in geek land. One particular post could've come from here but regarding Invicta:

IMHO the company is the very worst example of the swiss watch smoke and mirrors shell game, all promotion and empty advertising with nothing of substance.

Over a few encounters with the folks at doxa I found them to be consistantly dishonest to the point I felt it was disgusting.

So many issues have been deleted off their forum over the years that I lost track a long time ago, I haven't paid any attention to the company for over a year now and would never buy a post 2000 doxa no matter what the price.

Recently whenever doxa is mentioned on forums I just turn a blind eye and have kept my mouth shut. I've discussed almost every make and model of watch across every board without incident, but for some reason doxa discussions would always turn into slug fests whenever anything except orange sunshine is offered. I even got into heated exchanges with rick on a few occasions which always ended in the thread vanishing soon after.

I honestly expect a company to protect itself and do what it can to block bad PR....but I simply can't understand why the doxa fan base is always so willing to accept anything the comapny says and also attack anyone who suggests otherwise.


Just substitute Invicta for Doxa!!


This is my impression as well, Robert.
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Re: The Doxa controversy....

Postby koimaster » February 14th 2011, 5:58am

somewhere on this forum is a thread about a chinese company owned by the doxa folks.
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Re: The Doxa controversy....

Postby boscoe » February 14th 2011, 7:09am

BigCheez wrote:Just to clarify:

1. Some people that I greatly respect and admire absolutely love Doxas

2. A LOT of the watch Biz is smoke and mirrors (and BS) , like TAG's "in-house" Seiko movement... So I'm not saying Doxa is alone or in IWG's league...


Zactly. But the whole move from retail outlets to "private" direct sales earlier this decade was kind of hinky.
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Re: The Doxa controversy....

Postby Watch Noob » February 14th 2011, 7:35am

It would be great if some of you guys that have been around longer and are familar with the Doxa History and the controversary could put together a little bullet point time line for us. I remember reading a while back (2 years) or so ago about some of the controversary at WUS. I haven't really kept up with it becasue I wasn't interested in Doxa at the time.
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Re: The Doxa controversy....

Postby RaiderFan » February 14th 2011, 9:08am

boscoe wrote:
Zactly. But the whole move from retail outlets to "private" direct sales earlier this decade was kind of hinky.


I think a lot of the industry is just plain nervous about what's coming when the 20-30 somethings get a bit older and become THE driving force as far as spending goes. A lot of people from that generation and younger don't even own a watch. They get the time from their current electronic gadget. I remember reading a few years ago that the Swiss were seeing the industry contract at about 2% a year, and that was in a booming economy. Private direct sales are going to increase, IMO, as the watch builders cope with that and an aging workforce that they are having a lot of trouble trying to replace.
I would also like to see a timeline that shows us the prigression of the "Doxa Conspiracy." Even if I'm not into the brand, it's interesting.
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Re: The Doxa controversy....

Postby koimaster » February 14th 2011, 9:14am

I found this at a homage site while researching

http://www.homageforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&p=44690


For those who are interested in the threads, Tech time copied them over and maybe we should copy them also.

http://www.timetechtalk.com/view_topic.php?id=6119&forum_id=1


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Subject: Re: 1st 2011 Watch - Doxa 5000T Sharkhunter Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:58 pm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

jaw wrote:
ericf4 wrote:
so again whats the controversy? Did i miss something, i love their watches and wanna get a 750 GMT



Dubious and aka "Doxvicta" to some, with some questionable claims of Swiss origin leading to China. Watchgeek information control tactics on forums where they are sponsors (WUS) - deleting negative threads, etc. Swiss address but no factory. Sound familiar?

http://www.equationoftime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5306



Is there are "DoxaLords" forum yet?

SORRY, I could not resist!!!





The Jenny family also owns a company in China which makes cases and watches. I had the link here on the forum somewhere. Watches are almost identical in looks. One watch made in China I believe, the Aquadive is a Doxa clone. And by the way, The Jenny family who owns the brand is not related to the old company. As did Invicta, they purchased the name.
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Re: The Doxa controversy....

Postby Watch Noob » February 14th 2011, 10:06am

"Now, I will sit back and dedicate a website so people can see that dials cost $.10 cents. The whole watch is less than $200.00. complete breakdowns of everything. From DOXA paperwork not me." Image

If this is true, I smell another company that is as bad as Invicta. I'm glad I haven't purchased anything yet. This requires a lot of reading and investigation......
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Re: The Doxa controversy....

Postby Datsun240Z71 » February 14th 2011, 10:11am

People that own them generally seem to really like them, and many have or want more than one.
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Re: The Doxa controversy....

Postby Mark1 » February 14th 2011, 10:11am

koimaster wrote:somewhere on this forum is a thread about a chinese company owned by the doxa folks.


I found it Alain. I'm not ready to equate Doxa with Invicta but there appear to be some similarities-hell this type thing is probably more widespread than many people think.

http://watchlords.forumotion.net/t7798-a-swisese-company-who-makes-watches-for-mid-and-high-level-range
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Re: The Doxa controversy....

Postby Watch Noob » February 14th 2011, 10:22am

I apologize respectfully to Invicta for comparing Doxa's additon of 11 Dials to their limited edition Divingstar I just read about.

That would be more suited to Renato's system of Limited Editions.
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Re: The Doxa controversy....

Postby koimaster » February 14th 2011, 10:41am

Mark1 wrote:
koimaster wrote:somewhere on this forum is a thread about a chinese company owned by the doxa folks.


I found it Alain. I'm not ready to equate Doxa with Invicta but there appear to be some similarities-hell this type thing is probably more widespread than many people think.

http://watchlords.forumotion.net/t7798-a-swisese-company-who-makes-watches-for-mid-and-high-level-range



Thanks Mark :jkom: I agree that Doxa maybe different than IWG (at least no river pearl yet) and I agree that there are more companies out there with revised histories. I point to Croton as one. A long history but not owned by the Merm or his family for 100 years from what I have read.
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Re: The Doxa controversy....

Postby eddiea » February 14th 2011, 1:57pm

Considering the prices Doxa is asking ... they are making a killing on profits out-sourcing in China, no question.
As far as Doxa been different than Invicta, I desagree... aside from the obvious brand specific details and fuck-up's, the core, the essence of the bullshit seems doted with eerie similarities.
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Re: The Doxa controversy....

Postby Watch Noob » February 16th 2011, 2:36pm

Divingstar up for Sale at WUS - $1800


FS: VERY rare opportunity for Doxa fans!
One of the, if not the rarest Doxa of them all. The Divingstar
Sub 600T. Do you research. There are only 100 111 Image of these babies in
the entire world, long since sold out, and this one is mint! 95%
Not only does it include the diver's tube, links and warranty
card, I'll also include the rubber strap I ordered directly from
Doxa. Seriously? If you need a salespitch on this rare opportunity
move on to the next post.


http://forums.watchuseek.com/f29/fs-very-rare-opportunity-doxa-fans-506070.html
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Re: The Doxa controversy....

Postby eddiea » February 16th 2011, 5:26pm

Lots of Benjamin's for something half made in Hong Kong.....Seriously.
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Re: The Doxa controversy....

Postby Falstaff » February 17th 2011, 7:35am

Regulations for the use of the (wink wink) "Swiss Made" designation have more holes than an aged Emmentaler.
1. 50% of the value of the movement must be of Swiss manufacture (excluding labor).
2. Watch must be cased in Switzerland.
3. Final inspection of the watch must be carried out in Switzerland by the manufacturer.
That's it. Swiss Made. (Don't know if the proposed 80% for mechanicals/60% for electronics rule has gained traction or not.)
So, the expensively manufactured pieces of Swiss movements (mechanical or quartz) can be shipped to China for assembly and then reshipped to Switzerland along with Chinese manufactured cases, bracelets, dials, hands and crystals for final encasement assembly in Switzerland, inspected and sold legitimately as "Swiss Made".
I suppose if you think about it, that is probably the only way that "Swiss Made" watches can be profitably sold for $100 retail. The original Swatch was a great idea! Wouldn't be a bit surprised if Doxa among many, many others has adopted this manufacturing model - in fact, I'd be extremely surprised if they didn't. What controversy? Not even a matter of integrity - the FH's "Swiss Made" rules are clear and if Doxa is toeing that so easily toed line, then their product is the real McCoy, their Swiss consciences lily white, and when they return to their chalets each night, they sleep the blissful, untroubled sleep of cherubic Swiss children softly snuggled in crisp linen sheets (faintly scented with orange blossom) and a warm eiderdown featherbed. Haters!
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Re: The Doxa controversy....

Postby koimaster » May 24th 2011, 1:02pm

:twisted:
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Re: The Doxa controversy....

Postby boscoe » May 24th 2011, 7:44pm

BigCheez wrote:Just to clarify:

1. Some people that I greatly respect and admire absolutely love Doxas

2. A LOT of the watch Biz is smoke and mirrors (and BS) , like TAG's "in-house" Seiko movement... So I'm not saying Doxa is alone or in IWG's league...


True TAG lied, justified it. But the company did come clean and announce they f-ed up.
Doxa ain't saying shit. All smoke and mirrors.
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Re: The Doxa controversy....

Postby koimaster » September 7th 2011, 7:02am

:ninjaaaaa:
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