Guide to Seiko Men's 1958-1964 Mid/High Quality Mvmts

Guide to Seiko Men's 1958-1964 Mid/High Quality Mvmts

Postby Darksider » August 18th 2016, 2:10pm

Guide to Seiko Men's 1958-1964 Mid/High Quality Mvmts.
August 8 2009 at 10:01 PM
Score 1.0 (1 person)
Don (Login Ninja010)
SeikoHolic
from IP address 203.177.74.139


Response to An old post about caliber numbers








NOTES: A. This is another old post of mine. The reason I put it here is to show that:
1. indeed the "54" was used as a calibre# for the "54A Cronos (C)".
and
2. Martin's idea that the 4th digit (in main post) represents calendar type has validity. In the "formal encoding" of the 4 digit calibre# system that Seiko switched to in the appx mid '60s, the 4th digit WAS indeed used to indicate a combination of display type and wind type as follows:

0 -> Hand, no calendar.
1 -> Auto, no calendar.
2 -> Hand, Date only.
3 -> Hand, Day, Date.
4 -> (reserve)
5 -> Auto, Date only.
6 -> Auto, Day, Date.
7 -> (reserve)
8 -> (reserve)
9 -> (reserve)

B. The accuracy grades I mention below refer to Seiko internal accuracy grade standards for men's and women's models. You can find a posting of the information at:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/621198/t ... mechanical

C. Please excuse the somewhat clumsy formatting of the following tables & lists - I am NOT a master of HTML happy.gif

D. I also expect this can be used as a "base" for any additional information we can find on movements of this time period. We can either edit the text below or put in responses to update/correct the info contained therein.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
This is a compilation from many sources of information, with thanks to many folks on this forum & others online. This is my attempt at organizing the plethora of mid/high & higher quality Seiko men's dress and informal wear watch movements from the 1958 through 1964. It doesn't include true divers or complications (alarms, chronographs, etc.), just noncomplicated & calendar watches for dress or informal daily wear.

I don't claim it to be complete or 100% accurate. One source of complication is that this is a 4 dimensional problem (time, vertical hierarchy, lateral distribution across divisions & product lines) that I'm trying to display in 2 dimensional form. Here, I'll try to give a sense of the quality hierarchy (to the best of my knowlege) across both divisions. However, with the limited info I have it is sometimes a subjective comparison. Also, I'll give a sense of the progression of these better quality movements over time. This guide is limited to movements with at least 21 jewels (at least in some variants) introduced not later than 1964. NOTE: Some of the variants (ex. B or C) listed below may have been introduced later than 1964 but are included due to lack of definitive info in my files.

TIMELINE:

NOTE: the following are hand wind unless otherwise noted


ca. 1958, Daini: 54A Cronos (C)


ca. 1959, Suwa: 560 Crown (CW)


ca. 1960, Suwa: 3140 Liner


3180 Grand Seiko (GS)


5720A Grand Seiko (GS)


620 Liner (LN)


Daini: 60M Goldfeather


ca. 1961, Suwa: 341 Crown Special (CWL)


402 Skyliner (SLN)


5760 Crown Special (CWL)


57A Crown self-dater


57B Crown (CW)


Daini: 1st Generation KS, no calibre#


ca. 1962, Suwa: 394 Seikomatic Self-dater (MAS)


395 Self-dater "readjustment" (MASK)


6205B Seikomatic Self-dater (MAS)


Daini: 810 Cronos Special


ca. 1963, Suwa: 6240 Liner Chronometer


460 (LNCM) - may be same as 6240?


410 Sportmatic 5 (SMA5)


430 Grand Seiko self-dater (GSS)


5722A Grand Seiko self-dater (GSS)


5722A&B Grand Seiko calendar (57GSC)


NOTE: Per KSeiya, 5722B intro in 1966


603 Seikomatic (MA)


6206A&B Seikomatic Weekdater (62 B-MAW)


6606B Sportmatic 5 (SMA5)


831 Seikomatic, slim (MAM)


8305B Auto slim date (MAC-MAMD)


8305C Auto slim date (83MC)


ca. 1964, Suwa: 5740A&B Lord Marvel (LMK)


6218A&B&C Seikomatic Weekdater (MAWK)


Daini: 44A King Seiko (KSK)


4420A&B (KSCM & GS);


King Chronometer(A) & Grand Seiko(B)


NOTE: Per KSeiya 4420B GS intro 1966




-------------------------------------------------------
DIVISION COMPARISON (selected):


SUWA -> DAINI


Crown (560) Cronos (54A)


Crown Special (341, 5760) Cronos Special (810)


Grand (3180,430,572x) 4420A&B (KS Chron, GS)


-no equivalent? -> Goldfeather (60M) (1)


-no equivalent? -> King (44A) (1)


Liner Chronometer (6240) -no equivalent? (2)


Lord Marvel -no equivalent?


Skyliner (402) -no equivalent?


Seikomatic Weekdater (6218) -no equivalent?




NOTES: (1) Goldfeather is an ultrathin (2.95mm high) 12 ligne center-seconds mvmt with NO fine adjuster, while the KS 44A does have a tadpole fine adjuster, but a much thicker, though smaller diameter (11 lignes) mvmnt. So, it's not an exact product match, but they seem to be roughly same quality level & product "position".
(2) Suwa produced most of the men's watches during this time, so Daini product line is less "robust"

-----------------------------------------------------
HIERARCHY:


1st Tier: Grand Seiko / Chronometer


(25 - 35 jewels, fine adjuster, adj. 5 positions,


"AA" accuracy grade, Lion medallion...)


Suwa: 3180 (tadpole fine adj)


430 (tadpole fine adj)


5720A [renaming of 3180??]


5722A (tadpole fine adj.),


5722B (screw type fine adj.)


Daini: 4420A (tadpole fine adj.) & B





2nd Tier (25 - 35 jewels, not adj. 5 positions,


appx. "A" accuracy grade)


Suwa: 6240 Chronometer & 460?


395 (39j, NO fine adj.)


6218 Seikomatic Weekdater (35j, tadpole fine adj. on A&B; "rack & pinion" for C) (1)


Daini: Goldfeather (60M, NO fine adjuster)


King Seiko 1st Gen & 44A (both w/ tadpole fine adj.)





3rd Tier (21 - appx. 30 jewels, appx. "A" or "B" accuracy)


Suwa: Crown Special (5760)


400 MAW (33j - NO fine adjuster)


Seikomatic (603 - 30j, NO calendar, NO fine adjuster)


5740A&B Lord Marvel (tadpole fine adj.)


Daini: Cronos Special (810)





4th Tier (<21 - appx. 26 jewels, &/or "B" or "C" accuracy?)
<br>
Suwa: Crown (560 - NO fine adjuster; 57A&B)


Seikomatic Self-dater (394 - NO fine adjuster)


Seikomatic Weekdater (6206A&B - NO fine adjuster)


Sportmatic 5 (410 - NO fine adjuster)


Daini: Cronos (54A - NO fine adjuster)




NOTES:
0. Where adjuster type not listed, I have no info
1. 6218 is said by Randall Benson to be just slightly below 62GS
quality. It can hack & is water resistant (using the same gasket
as the 6105 & 6309 divers). It has both diashock & diafix, and
has 6 cap jewels (escape wheel, 3rd wheel, ...) and also 7 jewels to support the date ring.

------------------------------------------------------
BY JEWEL COUNT: (not necessarily a quality hierarchy)

1. 39 Jewels:
395 (also said to have 24j variant, but haven't seen it)
8325A

2. 35 Jewels:
430, 5722A&B
6218

3. 33 Jewels:
400

4. 30 Jewels:
603
8305

5. 27 Jewels:
4420A&B
8346A

6. 26 Jewels:
6206A&B

7. 25 Jewels:
3180, 5720A
1st Gen. KS & 44A
460, 6240
60M

8. 24 Jewels
394
6205B

All others listed in earlier sections are between 21j & 23j
(though some have mvmt variants w/ <21j) <br>
ex: 54A w/ 17-21-23j,
560 w/ 19-21j,
603 w/ 17-20-21-30j,
6205B w/ 17-24j.

-----------------------------------------------------
BY BEAT RATE:

1. 19800 bph
5722B

2. 18000 bph
60M
3180, 430, 4420A&B, 5722A
6218

NOTE: all others not specifically listed are probably 18000 bph


-----------------------------------------------------
OTHERS with insufficient data to categorize fully:

1. 400 (MAW) 33 jewels, Automatic Weekdater (Suwa??)
2. 8325A (83MC) 39 jewels Seikomatic calendar (Suwa??)
3. 840 (MAMD) 30 jewels, Seikomatic slim date (Suwa??)
4. 8346A (83MW & 83BA) Seikomatic Weekdater & Business A,
27 jewels, Suwa, Accuracy Grade "C"?,
NO fine adjuster, don't know intro date

===============================================


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