HELP-Select a Swiss Dress Automatic

HELP-Select a Swiss Dress Automatic

Postby AntonisCh » January 3rd 2018, 8:22am

Hi all,
After many years in Japan watch collecting, it's time to go for a swiss piece.

My prefs:
-Swiss only and purely. No German brands
-Dress watch
-No date/day or any other complications
-No sub-dials of any kind
-Automatic and ideally mechanical/hand-winding

-No gold or rose-gold

-40-41mm max

-Price range 2K

Your suggestions, proposals and teasing photos will be highly appreciated!
Thanks in advance!

And Happy New Year!
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Re: HELP-Select a Swiss Dress Automatic

Postby foghorn » January 3rd 2018, 8:43am

If you go to Jomashop you can plug in your specs and come up with some good examples. Frederique Constant,Mido, and Hamilton all have examples at or below your price range.
Happy hunting.
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Re: HELP-Select a Swiss Dress Automatic

Postby conjurer » January 3rd 2018, 8:51am

foghorn wrote:If you go to Jomashop you can plug in your specs and come up with some good examples. Frederique Constant,Mido, and Hamilton all have examples at or below your price range.
Happy hunting.


Yup. And Jomashop's on the level, too.
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Re: HELP-Select a Swiss Dress Automatic

Postby MKTheVintageBloke » January 3rd 2018, 9:19am

Montblanc Heritage Chronometrie Ultra Slim comes to mind.

For whatever reason, few companies in that price range offer no-date mechanical dress watches. Or, for that matter, any other watches without a date window.
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Re: HELP-Select a Swiss Dress Automatic

Postby Thunder1 » January 3rd 2018, 10:25am

Ahh, the world is your oyster...Ashford's is also a good choice, as is the Longines brand..and previously loved examples on the 'Bay could be considered, as well..
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Re: HELP-Select a Swiss Dress Automatic

Postby TemerityB » January 3rd 2018, 12:36pm

Thunder1 wrote:Ahh, the world is your oyster...Ashford's is also a good choice, as is the Longines brand..and previously loved examples on the 'Bay could be considered, as well..


At Ashford you can meet your specs and have about a grand left to play with. Seriously.
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Re: HELP-Select a Swiss Dress Automatic

Postby koimaster » January 3rd 2018, 12:42pm

Thunder1 wrote:Ahh, the world is your oyster...Ashford's is also a good choice, as is the Longines brand..and previously loved examples on the 'Bay could be considered, as well..



Longines is a great choice for a dress watch and I will agree about the Montblac as well. Perhaps a pre-owned Grand Seiko or Bremont might be an alternate choice as would Maurice Lacroix but I am biased toward the brand as I own three of them. https://shop.mauricelacroix.us/mens?gcl ... YsQAvD_BwE
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Re: HELP-Select a Swiss Dress Automatic

Postby gerdson » January 3rd 2018, 1:13pm

AntonisCh wrote:...
My prefs:
-Swiss only and purely. No German brands
...
Thanks in advance!

And Happy New Year!


Hater. :mrgreen:

As per the brands - for some reason I would recommend to stay away from Montblanc - a great brand - for fountain pens, but not for watches. I mean their heritage, not the quality of their products, which I can not rate. In addition, it is not really Swiss brand, although their watches are built there.
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Re: HELP-Select a Swiss Dress Automatic

Postby conjurer » January 3rd 2018, 3:10pm

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Re: HELP-Select a Swiss Dress Automatic

Postby MKTheVintageBloke » January 3rd 2018, 3:22pm

gerdson wrote:
AntonisCh wrote:...
My prefs:
-Swiss only and purely. No German brands
...
Thanks in advance!

And Happy New Year!


Hater. :mrgreen:

As per the brands - for some reason I would recommend to stay away from Montblanc - a great brand - for fountain pens, but not for watches. I mean their heritage, not the quality of their products, which I can not rate. In addition, it is not really Swiss brand, although their watches are built there.

The heritage of Montblanc's watch division can be rated, actually. Prior to being acquired by Montblanc and rebranded as such, the company was called Minerva. Which can be rated alright - they were one of the very few manufactures with their very own in-house chronograph movements (which, from time to time, they have provided to other manufacturers). Looking at Minerva's old movements and at the best that Montblanc can come up with these days, the technological prowess is still there.

The country where a company was founded is hardly something to take into account. After all, even the oh-so-very-Swiss Rolex was founded in Britain, used British-made bracelets and cases - does that make it any less Swiss?
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Re: HELP-Select a Swiss Dress Automatic

Postby conjurer » January 3rd 2018, 3:47pm

MKTheVintageBloke wrote:
gerdson wrote:
AntonisCh wrote:...
My prefs:
-Swiss only and purely. No German brands
...
Thanks in advance!

And Happy New Year!


Hater. :mrgreen:

As per the brands - for some reason I would recommend to stay away from Montblanc - a great brand - for fountain pens, but not for watches. I mean their heritage, not the quality of their products, which I can not rate. In addition, it is not really Swiss brand, although their watches are built there.

The heritage of Montblanc's watch division can be rated, actually. Prior to being acquired by Montblanc and rebranded as such, the company was called Minerva. Which can be rated alright - they were one of the very few manufactures with their very own in-house chronograph movements (which, from time to time, they have provided to other manufacturers). Looking at Minerva's old movements and at the best that Montblanc can come up with these days, the technological prowess is still there.

The country where a company was founded is hardly something to take into account. After all, even the oh-so-very-Swiss Rolex was founded in Britain, used British-made bracelets and cases - does that make it any less Swiss?


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Re: HELP-Select a Swiss Dress Automatic

Postby MKTheVintageBloke » January 3rd 2018, 6:34pm

conjurer wrote:
MKTheVintageBloke wrote:
gerdson wrote:
AntonisCh wrote:...
My prefs:
-Swiss only and purely. No German brands
...
Thanks in advance!

And Happy New Year!


Hater. :mrgreen:

As per the brands - for some reason I would recommend to stay away from Montblanc - a great brand - for fountain pens, but not for watches. I mean their heritage, not the quality of their products, which I can not rate. In addition, it is not really Swiss brand, although their watches are built there.

The heritage of Montblanc's watch division can be rated, actually. Prior to being acquired by Montblanc and rebranded as such, the company was called Minerva. Which can be rated alright - they were one of the very few manufactures with their very own in-house chronograph movements (which, from time to time, they have provided to other manufacturers). Looking at Minerva's old movements and at the best that Montblanc can come up with these days, the technological prowess is still there.

The country where a company was founded is hardly something to take into account. After all, even the oh-so-very-Swiss Rolex was founded in Britain, used British-made bracelets and cases - does that make it any less Swiss?


Knott sew Fast Mr. bringa Bloak ricardo Montel Blank makes ink Penns knot Wartchs GODAM it.

A short read:
https://www.watch-wiki.net/index.php?title=Minerva]
It's still Minerva, only operating under a new brand name, so it's not like a pen company got the idea of building a watch company of their own from scratch - they simply bought out an existing one, and slapped their name on the dial.

Can't really see the problem with both pens and watches sharing one brand name. Making pendants, earrings or whatnot didn't really get in the way of Cartier and Bucherer, when it comes to making watches. Why would pens get in the way?
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Re: HELP-Select a Swiss Dress Automatic

Postby gerdson » January 4th 2018, 2:51am

Ok - but that matches what I said. There is nothing wrong with their quality. But there is no "watch related heritage" in the brand Montblanc. It is their strategy that I am challenging - You take a well established brand in one area and try to extend it to all other areas of the luxury world. I am not buying it. A Montblanc is a pen, not a watch. I can see them producing accompanying gimmicks like leather cases or other things You might find in Your typical desk or briefcase. But not a watch, not a pendant, earring, craft beer or Scotch Malt Whisky.
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Re: HELP-Select a Swiss Dress Automatic

Postby MKTheVintageBloke » January 4th 2018, 10:04pm

gerdson wrote:Ok - but that matches what I said. There is nothing wrong with their quality. But there is no "watch related heritage" in the brand Montblanc. It is their strategy that I am challenging - You take a well established brand in one area and try to extend it to all other areas of the luxury world. I am not buying it. A Montblanc is a pen, not a watch. I can see them producing accompanying gimmicks like leather cases or other things You might find in Your typical desk or briefcase. But not a watch, not a pendant, earring, craft beer or Scotch Malt Whisky.

I don't think we can narrow it down to the luxury world only. For example, Victorinox made pen knives and multi-tools, and out of a sudden they went into making tool watches.

There's a substantial difference between a knife with can and bottle opening tools, and a watch. Still, the community has largely accepted them. The new models are often kind of "forum darlings."

Pendants and other jewelry? Tell that to Omega... Cufflinks? Yes, Patek makes them. Nothing wrong with that. People are over the moon with the new Bulgari, which started out as anything but a watch company.

Another example is Hermes - they had watches made for them, and they were a retailer. They never made one of their own entirely, until recently. It's a fashion house, but still they somehow made their way into watches. I mean, very ghey watches, but still they made a name for themselves in the industry.

Montblanc started an all-out diversification years ago. Leather, steel and precious metal accessories are one thing, but they even went into the perfume business. It isn't that long since they've acquired Minerva, but while the Minerva name was dead and buried, everyone knows Montblanc. So, the rebranding was somehow natural. Of course, the sentimental, vintage watch fanatic part of me says they should have kept it as Minerva, but somehow their way of doing things has saved a great manufacturer from the old days, and put it on the radar again. And keep in mind, back then Minerva was in ruins, facing extinction, and just about to start knocking on horological heaven's door.

That said, the way I see it will more than likely take some time, before people accept Montblanc as a watch manufacturer, but time's all it'll take. It always takes time before people start associating a brand with a product not in line with what said brand has been doing so far. So, I think that giving them a chance would be the fair play way to go. They're trying hard, so putting the kibosh on them would somehow just not be the honourable thing to do.
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Re: HELP-Select a Swiss Dress Automatic

Postby gerdson » January 5th 2018, 4:56am

Yes yes, still I don't buy them. Neither Victorinox (btw. their knives were never really sharp either), not even a Hermes, though I have spoken with some of their watchmakers on a fair in Hamburg once.

I would buy a Minerva at any time, but only a vintage one of course.

AntonisCH is asking specifically for a Swiss brand. In my eyes that rules out any of the "test-tube" brands that have popped up in recent years. But I do agree it is a matter of taste, and I do not wish Montblanc or any other company evil.
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Re: HELP-Select a Swiss Dress Automatic

Postby Thunder1 » January 5th 2018, 7:22am

gerdson wrote:Neither Victorinox (btw. their knives were never really sharp either), not even a Hermes, though I have spoken with some of their watchmakers on a fair in Hamburg once.

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but yes, the several Victorinox 'campers' that I have owned are only sharp enough to cut cold butter..I have happened upon a Marbles Workman camper(made in China) for around $11.00 from Smokey Mountain Knifeworks that has very sharp blades that I personally carry and occasionally gift to friends/family.. ;)
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Re: HELP-Select a Swiss Dress Automatic

Postby MKTheVintageBloke » January 5th 2018, 11:52am

gerdson wrote:AntonisCH is asking specifically for a Swiss brand.

Only none of these seem to make a mechanical watch in the specified price range, which wouldn't feature a date window. Pretty much all of the "oh-so-very-Swiss" brands under $2K are slapping a date window on just about everything, as these companies aim at the average consumer, not the WIS. And for whatever reason, it appears that the average non-WIS John Doe tends to choose the watch with a date window (even if said window looks ghastly). So even if a piece is theoretically WIS-oriented, they still put a date window on it, so that John "I need a date window even if it's fucking ghastly" Doe will buy it.
That said, within this range, it's mostly a choice between a shitty-looking date window and a well-designed date window.
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Re: HELP-Select a Swiss Dress Automatic

Postby conjurer » January 5th 2018, 12:12pm

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Re: HELP-Select a Swiss Dress Automatic

Postby Thunder1 » January 5th 2018, 12:23pm

For pre-loved under $2K, how about a Cartier Tank Francais?
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Re: HELP-Select a Swiss Dress Automatic

Postby Falstaff » January 5th 2018, 12:46pm

A stuffed pig makes an attractive lamp shade - and no date window!
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Re: HELP-Select a Swiss Dress Automatic

Postby gerdson » January 5th 2018, 2:28pm

Fallstaff: Uh, yes. :scratch: :D

MKTheVintageBloke wrote:
gerdson wrote:AntonisCH is asking specifically for a Swiss brand.

Only none of these seem to make a mechanical watch in the specified price range, which wouldn't feature a date window. Pretty much all of the "oh-so-very-Swiss" brands under $2K are slapping a date window on just about everything, as these companies aim at the average consumer, not the WIS. And for whatever reason, it appears that the average non-WIS John Doe tends to choose the watch with a date window (even if said window looks ghastly). So even if a piece is theoretically WIS-oriented, they still put a date window on it, so that John "I need a date window even if it's fucking ghastly" Doe will buy it.
That said, within this range, it's mostly a choice between a shitty-looking date window and a well-designed date window.


Ok. I would go vintage anyways, with a huge choice, but mostly up to 36mm. But I will take this to watchtime.ch. Let's see what they have to offer.
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Re: HELP-Select a Swiss Dress Automatic

Postby MKTheVintageBloke » January 5th 2018, 3:56pm

Vintage leaves quite a lot of choice. The OP didn't specify if it's supposed to be vintage or contemporary, though... If vintage is an option, then within the $2K range, steel, time-only... Maybe a no-date Constellation from the early 1960s, or a no-date Tudor. Possibly something from IWC (cal.89 in a steel case should be easy to find below 2 grand) or JLC.
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Re: HELP-Select a Swiss Dress Automatic

Postby Eldan » January 5th 2018, 7:26pm

You could probably find a nice Omega Seamaster in that range, although without date would be rare.
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Re: HELP-Select a Swiss Dress Automatic

Postby gerdson » January 6th 2018, 2:51am

So I went back to watchtime.ch. There were three proposals so far - twice Montblanc as suggested above. :D

And this Frederique Constant:

https://frederiqueconstant.com/de/watch-finder/herrenuhren/classics-art-of-porcelain-fc-302p4s6/
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