US government climate report 2017

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US government climate report 2017

Postby bedlam » November 5th 2017, 10:30pm

Climate change is real and our fault

Similar to the structure of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change assessment reports, this first section of the Climate Assessment focuses on the physical science of climate change. The second half—which has not yet been finalized—will cover the impacts of climate change on the United States.

The conclusions are also largely similar to those of the last IPCC report, but some are stated a little more clearly—perhaps in response to the deliberate misrepresentation of some of those conclusions by politicians and “skeptics.”

The topline conclusion is obviously the degree to which observed global warming is human-caused, and the report pulls no punches: “Many lines of evidence demonstrate that it is extremely likely that human influence has been the dominant cause of the observed warming since the mid-20th century. Over the last century, there are no convincing alternative explanations supported by the extent of the observational evidence.”
"If I could put a finger on the moment we genuinely fucked ourselves, it was the moment we decided that data was something you could use words like believe or disbelieve around...

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Re: US government climate report 2017

Postby conjurer » November 5th 2017, 10:51pm

I find it interesting that so many people deny this. I myself have no dog in this hunt, as I have no offspring (that I know about), and, in the best case scenario, I've got maybe thirty years left on this earth--something I'm doing my best to limit, believe me.

The cool thing (!) about climate change is, like a fired bullet, it's going to do its thing whether we believe it or not. You can stand there and say, "I don't believe there's a rifle bullet speeding towards my head," and feel all superior. But in the end, when the bullet connects, and your brains are spattered broadcast, all that matters are the laws of physics, because you can't wish away the bullet. The same goes for climate change--you can deny it until the water's up to your neck, but nature don't give a shit.
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Re: US government climate report 2017

Postby 3Flushes » November 6th 2017, 2:43am

conjurer wrote:...nature don't give a shit.


It frequently strikes me how we humans have come to see ourselves and the by-products of our existence as apart from nature, and the sphere in which we exist, atemporal. And as you say conj, nature don't give a shit, so what could be greater evidence that humankind is as much a tenant of nature as the climate, a river, or a flower? H-sapiens are, in fact, not superior to nature, we are an extant, self-hating lot, who collectively couldn't give a shit about our disparate and inanimate fellow inhabitants of nature any more than we do for our own kind. It appears all that could account for the human condition we have created for ourselves; as natural, regularly destructive, and unpreventable as the wind.

Regardless of causation, regardless of the data confirming the condition, much like the universal issues related to violence, or human health and healthcare, climate change will remain largely disputed and unresolved because, ultimately, nature don't give a shit.
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Re: US government climate report 2017

Postby Wasp » November 6th 2017, 6:33am

All this very well may be true. The fact of the matter is just about every country on the planet wants to get into our pockets for compensation. eeeeh....no. We will take part in a sane approach when India and China participate equally. Don't hold your breath waiting for that collaboration.
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Re: US government climate report 2017

Postby bedlam » November 6th 2017, 7:20am

Wasp wrote:All this very well may be true. The fact of the matter is just about every country on the planet wants to get into our pockets for compensation. eeeeh....no. We will take part in a sane approach when India and China participate equally. Don't hold your breath waiting for that collaboration.

Ummm, don't know what news you watch but that boat has sailed...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-02/c ... er/8316660
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Re: US government climate report 2017

Postby codguy » November 6th 2017, 8:36am

bedlam wrote: that boat has sailed...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-02/c ... er/8316660


WhooHoo, bedlam loves Chinese environmental policies/effects/results......

It truly warms my heart that my non-existent offspring can now sleep better night.
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Re: US government climate report 2017

Postby Hawk » November 6th 2017, 10:01am

Wasp wrote:All this very well may be true. The fact of the matter is just about every country on the planet wants to get into our pockets for compensation. eeeeh....no. We will take part in a sane approach when India and China participate equally. Don't hold your breath waiting for that collaboration.


You really should go there one day. Whatever you're reading may possibly be written by people that have never been there but that doesn't prevent you from seeing for yourself. Try not to take pictures of Harbin as representative of the entire place.

Go to see how far they've kicked us in the ass and you'll see we're the ones waiting for a hand out before discovering some forms of energy are not only cleaner but cheaper even in the short term. Strangely the one area where we led on letting the market price give natural gas an advantage has some folk spun up about evil frackers but frak 'em anyway.

Go for the solar, stay for the babes.
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Re: US government climate report 2017

Postby Wasp » November 6th 2017, 10:42am

Well I'll be boogered. Thanks gents. I need to stop watching looped 50's westerns for a while.
7000 new cars on the road a day. fuel cell, electric?
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Re: US government climate report 2017

Postby bedlam » November 6th 2017, 4:44pm

codguy wrote:
bedlam wrote: that boat has sailed...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-02/c ... er/8316660


WhooHoo, bedlam loves Chinese environmental policies/effects/results......

It truly warms my heart that my non-existent offspring can now sleep better night.

It's a long way from love, but at least they are going in a rational direction. Your government and mine on the other hand are weaving us hand-baskets for the speediest possible trip to hell.
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Re: US government climate report 2017

Postby TemerityB » November 6th 2017, 5:10pm

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Re: US government climate report 2017

Postby bedlam » November 6th 2017, 11:59pm

Oh no, the horror...

There Was So Much Wind Power In Germany This Weekend, Consumers Got Free Energy

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... kend-chart
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Re: US government climate report 2017

Postby Hawk » November 7th 2017, 10:46am

codguy wrote:
bedlam wrote: that boat has sailed...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-02/c ... er/8316660


WhooHoo, bedlam loves Chinese environmental policies/effects/results......

It truly warms my heart that my non-existent offspring can now sleep better night.


My inner cynic tells me that if the Chinese are all in on renewable energy it's similar to finding out the Ferengi have endorsed solar.

I can't picture the Chinese government spending one thin Renminbi for "good press" or "fuzzy feelings". One wonders if they haven't spotted a favorable return on investment or even near term profits. Such things have happened here when many in the coal business transitioned to natural gas. It was strictly profit-based.

This makes me wonder: if one takes the Chinese government's position and factors in their pragmatic attitude what are the chances that the folks that are saying that clean energy would cost too much are simply lying to you?

The transitions from coal to natural gas in the US happened mostly under the radar possibly because it doesn't play into the Dem's narrative of needing to go full agony nor the Rep's narrative of "bringing back coal" when it's US natural gas that killed it.

Hell, even Exxon-Mobile and industry groups can't find much to complain about.
https://energyfactor.exxonmobil.com/per ... -expected/


One thing for certain: the Chinese have figured out how to kick ass on solar panel production and pricing. Enough so our DOC has imposed punitive tariffs under their "anti-dumping" authority. A proper libertarian or, I assume, Republican would let the market take its normal course without either government subsidies or stupid-high tariffs. At least as far as solar goes I tend to believe that anybody in the government saying it can't survive without subsidies is blowing sunshine up my dungarees because it's their tariffs making the price high. Remove the punitive tariffs and let's see where it goes. If we need a 260% tariff to protect domestic solar producers then let them die and let the market decide.

Until we at least try a "hand off" approach we can't say that clean energy "costs". Ordinarily I wouldn't give a shit if the US got its ass kicked again but my Thai friend threw a curve ball by suggesting we make the US home - so I'm back to caring - a little.
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Re: US government climate report 2017

Postby codguy » November 7th 2017, 12:51pm

Thought I read somewhere that disposal of old/used/broken solar panels have toxins/chemicals/etc. that are harmful to the environment.

If so, lot to be said about "clean" energy not being as environmental friendly as the greenies would like (ie: battery powered cars........).

Thinking out loud.
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Re: US government climate report 2017

Postby Mortuus » November 7th 2017, 1:35pm

Guys, guys, GUYS! It's ALL OKAY, all right? No, REALLY, it WILL be okay, because my very own Governor Jerry "Moonbeam" Brown is pushing legislation through the California Assembly & Senate -- both bodies long-held by the Democrat Party, so the pushing required ain't too much work for 'ol 'Beams -- that will will ban all internal-combustion vehicles from Cali's highways, roads, dirt trails, game trails, etc., by (get this, boys 'n girls!) the year 2050!!

(Cali's Hemp-Head-in-Chief originally wanted the Year of 2525, as that was a fave song from his Flowah Powah Daze, but 'ol 'Beams felt that'd just be far too long a wait for all his loyal subjects and accursed supplicants here in the Imperial Democratic Peoples State of California, where it's all good, irrespective of things like science, logic and true scientific fact. Oh, and we NEVER discuss the HUGE negative environmental impact of Jerry's $1.5B USD Hi-Speed Railway to Nowhere project, because, well, it just makes Jerry & Jerry's Kids all upset when you bring facts to the table and ruin their THC-fueled view of the Way the WORLD Ought to BE!

Seig Heil and Keep That Smile, Everyone!! :| )

So, you see, all will be well, and all manner of things will be well...or, put another way, the moonbats have got this one, folks! Keep smiling, Cali Girl!*



















*Now PLEASE don't bombard me with the virtual reams & reams of scientific "facts" and quotes from your side, 'kay? I'm just gonna ignore them, as they make zero sense to me...like, well, always... :lol:
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Re: US government climate report 2017

Postby Hawk » November 7th 2017, 2:48pm

codguy wrote:Thought I read somewhere that disposal of old/used/broken solar panels have toxins/chemicals/etc. that are harmful to the environment.

If so, lot to be said about "clean" energy not being as environmental friendly as the greenies would like (ie: battery powered cars........).

Thinking out loud.


Me too.

The articles I've found regarding the environmental impact of auto batteries are generally spun up about something not being produced for a decade. The current lithium-ion tech is friendlier than nickel metal-hydride though I wouldn't wish lithium ion batteries dumped in my soup either. Next generation traction batteries have already fired up a patent feud and should be even cleaner with greater energy density.

Ditto solar panels - they shouldn't be tossed in a land fill for roughly the same reasons as cell phones and computers. However solar panels have a service life of 25 years which is growing rapidly though we've put them on the wrong side of a tariff war.

Generally but not always when I get an article about the imperfections of solar or electric cars (more and more actually natural gas cars) the points are listed in a vacuum - you know, like Exxon Valdez, Deep Water Horizon or gasoline explosions never happen. Keep "clean" out of the conversation and stay with problems associated with gasoline, coal and oil on a strictly body count basis and the charges of imperfection in the alternatives start to sound hollow. Ask BP what the cost of their mishap ran. Despite some on left opining that BP didn't care BP is a business and they cared a LOT as they watched dollar bills / pounds sterling hemorrhage into the ocean off Louisiana.


Not like I'd usually appeal to a common interest but if you have Netflix check out APEX: The Story of the Hypercar . A brief description is reviewed at Road & Track here:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture ... ar-review/

Point being that in the pursuit of ultimate performance between Porsche, McLaren, Ferrari, Bugatti, Pagani, and Koenigsegg the majority are currently using electric traction motors combined with a gasoline engine. If you want ultimate performance you'll be looking at a hybrid of sorts. If shit continues in this fashion the gasoline engine may well be jettisoned in the near future leaving a bunch of quiet, soulless cars blowing the doors off any traditionally fueled auto.

Progress - you can fight it but you'll eventually be sucking ions at the track - unless those rules-making fucks do to everyone what they did to Granatelli when they crippled his turbine (also more powerful and efficient than piston engines).

Progress and tides - just can't hold 'em back. Folks like Imhof can delay progress but they can't stop it - they're simply on the wrong side of profit and 200+ mph street cars.

If you're fighting electric traction motors in cars you're fighting this - and I ain't believing that.

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Re: US government climate report 2017

Postby conjurer » November 7th 2017, 3:02pm

Hawk wrote:Image


That's a nice lookin' car, but you cain't haul nothing in it.
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Re: US government climate report 2017

Postby Hawk » November 7th 2017, 3:15pm

Mortuus wrote:Now PLEASE don't bombard me with the virtual reams & reams of scientific "facts" and quotes from your side, 'kay? I'm just gonna ignore them, as they make zero sense to me...like, well, always... :lol:


How about a non-scientific, fact-free personal guess / prediction?

It's all theater - they'll probably all be electric by 2050 anyway. They'll put in a couple amendments in the interests of "grandfathering" and progress will do what progress is wont to do - it'll replace the old with the better and it'll do it painlessly.

Forget the Eye-tallion thing above - how's about a little UK action?

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Described thus:
The P1 features a 3.8-litre twin-turbo V8 petrol engine.[9] The twin turbos boost the petrol engine at 1.4 bar to deliver 727 bhp (737 PS; 542 kW) and 531 lb·ft (720 N·m) of torque at 7,500 rpm, combined with an in-house developed electric motor producing 176 bhp (178 PS; 131 kW) and 192 lb·ft (260 N·m). With both engine and the electric motor, the P1 has a total power and torque output of 903 bhp (916 PS; 673 kW) and 723 lb·ft (980 N·m) of torque. The electric motor can be deployed manually by the driver or left in automatic mode, whereby the car's ECUs 'torque fill' the gaps in the petrol engine's output, which is considered turbo lag. This gives the powertrain an effective powerband of almost 7,000 rpm.[10] The car is rear-wheel-drive with a seven-speed dual-clutch transmission developed by Graziano.


My fearless prediction (fearless as I'll not be around to pay off if wrong) is that the internal combustion portion will become more and more irrelevant while improvements in the electric portion continue. Costs come down and the market will be perfectly happy. There's 35 friggin' years between production of the P1 and the "deadline". The internal combustion engine doesn't have any big improvements on the horizon and the electric traction motor is just coming out of the starting blocks.

Fear not - the gearheads in 2050 will decorate their cupcakes. Standard cars with friendly pricing will be gradually electrified without noticeable price increase or other agony. Hopefully Cali generates more of their own power by that time - it'd be ironic if they had to build 40 coal-fired power plants in downtown Sacramento to feed all those electric cars.
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Re: US government climate report 2017

Postby Hawk » November 7th 2017, 3:17pm

conjurer wrote:
Hawk wrote:
That's a nice lookin' car, but you cain't haul nothing in it.


Coke and diamonds? Trailer hitch maybe?
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Re: US government climate report 2017

Postby bedlam » November 7th 2017, 4:59pm

codguy wrote:Thought I read somewhere that disposal of old/used/broken solar panels have toxins/chemicals/etc. that are harmful to the environment.

If so, lot to be said about "clean" energy not being as environmental friendly as the greenies would like (ie: battery powered cars........). Thinking out loud.

Notwithstanding the denier supported urban myths, the audit on environmental impact of electric cars has been done. All things in the mix, including disposal, find they generate half the environmental burden of an equivalent fuel driven car.

Next red herring please.
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Re: US government climate report 2017

Postby conjurer » November 7th 2017, 5:32pm

bedlam wrote:
codguy wrote:Thought I read somewhere that disposal of old/used/broken solar panels have toxins/chemicals/etc. that are harmful to the environment.

If so, lot to be said about "clean" energy not being as environmental friendly as the greenies would like (ie: battery powered cars........). Thinking out loud.

Notwithstanding the denier supported urban myths, the audit on environmental impact of electric cars has been done. All things in the mix, including disposal, find they generate half the environmental burden of an equivalent fuel driven car.

Next red herring please.


Yeah, but electric cars are fucking ghey. They are Wagnerianly ghey. I don't care if they're badged Tesla or Lambo or whateverthefuck, they're goddamned gheyness personified.

A lot of kids in America today don't even own a fucking car. Let me repeat that: A lot of kids in America today don't even own a fucking car. Instead, when they need a ride down to the fucking Starbucks they call up an Luffer or whatever the fuck it's called. "Oh, what do I need a car for?" they say, as they adjust their porkpie hats in the front window of the fucking Starbucks and smooth down their fucking neckbeards. "Why, if I don't own a car, I can buy many more skinny jeans!" Then they fucking vape and sip their goddamn caramel machiatos or whatever the fuck, and stare into their fucking smartphones and play Pokimon fucking Go instead of going out to find some fucking trim and get laid. Fuck that shit. We're raising a bunch of goddamn pantywaists who would rather surf the fucking internet than get their twinkies stinky. The world is upside down; everything is fucked up. And, worser than that fucking shit, if a kid today wants to buy a fucking car, they want to buy A MOTHERFUCKING PRIUS. Tell me that Priuses aren't fucking gheymobiles, designed to promote tea-bagging and sodomy of the worst kind. You show me a Tesla owner, I'll show you a guy who's motto is "better latent than never."

A real fucking car produces bhp, not fucking kilowatts. That's the fucking way it is. And don't fucking start with "Oh, oh, the Tesla produces a lot of torque!" I don't give a fuck about torque. I want to hear a REAL FUCKING ENGINE when I hit the fucking gas, not a motherfucking pencil sharpener.
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Re: US government climate report 2017

Postby Thunder1 » November 7th 2017, 5:56pm

Sorry, but the Tesla Model S can be a very sweet ride...
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Re: US government climate report 2017

Postby conjurer » November 7th 2017, 6:04pm

Thunder1 wrote:Sorry, but the Tesla Model S can be a very sweet ride...


GHEY!
Johannes! My knees are trembling from banging her so hard with my rod!

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Re: US government climate report 2017

Postby smellody » November 7th 2017, 6:19pm

conjurer wrote:
bedlam wrote:
codguy wrote:Thought I read somewhere that disposal of old/used/broken solar panels have toxins/chemicals/etc. that are harmful to the environment.

If so, lot to be said about "clean" energy not being as environmental friendly as the greenies would like (ie: battery powered cars........). Thinking out loud.

Notwithstanding the denier supported urban myths, the audit on environmental impact of electric cars has been done. All things in the mix, including disposal, find they generate half the environmental burden of an equivalent fuel driven car.

Next red herring please.


Yeah, but electric cars are fucking ghey. They are Wagnerianly ghey. I don't care if they're badged Tesla or Lambo or whateverthefuck, they're goddamned gheyness personified.

A lot of kids in America today don't even own a fucking car. Let me repeat that: A lot of kids in America today don't even own a fucking car. Instead, when they need a ride down to the fucking Starbucks they call up an Luffer or whatever the fuck it's called. "Oh, what do I need a car for?" they say, as they adjust their porkpie hats in the front window of the fucking Starbucks and smooth down their fucking neckbeards. "Why, if I don't own a car, I can buy many more skinny jeans!" Then they fucking vape and sip their goddamn caramel machiatos or whatever the fuck, and stare into their fucking smartphones and play Pokimon fucking Go instead of going out to find some fucking trim and get laid. Fuck that shit. We're raising a bunch of goddamn pantywaists who would rather surf the fucking internet than get their twinkies stinky. The world is upside down; everything is fucked up. And, worser than that fucking shit, if a kid today wants to buy a fucking car, they want to buy A MOTHERFUCKING PRIUS. Tell me that Priuses aren't fucking gheymobiles, designed to promote tea-bagging and sodomy of the worst kind. You show me a Tesla owner, I'll show you a guy who's motto is "better latent than never."

A real fucking car produces bhp, not fucking kilowatts. That's the fucking way it is. And don't fucking start with "Oh, oh, the Tesla produces a lot of torque!" I don't give a fuck about torque. I want to hear a REAL FUCKING ENGINE when I hit the fucking gas, not a motherfucking pencil sharpener.


Yes. I agree 1,000,000%. I'll keep my 6.75 litres, adequately powered, land yacht. I will NEVER go that kind of ghey. Never. Ever. NEVER!
   
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Re: US government climate report 2017

Postby foghorn » November 7th 2017, 6:19pm

Fuck cars.
As long as mine gets me to the packy and back home I'm happy.
GET OFF MY LAWN
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Re: US government climate report 2017

Postby smellody » November 7th 2017, 6:21pm

Damn hipster rooster.

I thought you were old enough to have soul.
   
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