What does it mean when Kaepernick kneels?

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What does it mean when Kaepernick kneels?

Postby koimaster » September 30th 2017, 4:16pm

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September 26 at 5:59pm · Stafford, VA ·
How it all started, and how we got here.

(Unfortunately, the people that could learn something by reading this likely won't bother).

Did you know this?
Aug 14, 2016- Colin Kaepernick sits for the national anthem.....and no one noticed.

Aug 20th, 2016- Colin again sits, and again, no one noticed.

Aug 26th, 2016- Colin sits and this time he is met with a level of vitriol unseen against an athlete. Even the future President of the United States took shots at him while on the campaign trail. Colin went on to explain his protest had NOTHING to with the military, but he felt it hard to stand for a flag that didn't treat people of color fairly.

Then on on Aug 30th, 2016 Nate Boyer, a former Army Green Beret turned NFL long snapper, penned an open letter to Colin in the Army Times. In it he expressed how Colin's sitting affected him.

Then a strange thing happened. Colin was able to do what most Americans to date have not...
He listened.

In his letter, Mr. Boyer writes:
"I’m not judging you for standing up for what you believe in. It’s your inalienable right. What you are doing takes a lot of courage, and I’d be lying if I said I knew what it was like to walk around in your shoes. I’ve never had to deal with prejudice because of the color of my skin, and for me to say I can relate to what you’ve gone through is as ignorant as someone who’s never been in a combat zone telling me they understand what it’s like to go to war.
Even though my initial reaction to your protest was one of anger, I’m trying to listen to what you’re saying and why you’re doing it."

Mr. Boyer goes on to write "There are already plenty people fighting fire with fire, and it’s just not helping anyone or anything. So I’m just going to keep listening, with an open mind. I look forward to the day you're inspired to once again stand during our national anthem. I'll be standing right there next to you."

Empathy and understanding was shown by Mr. Boyer.........and Mr. Kaepernick reciprocated.

Colin invited Nate to San Diego where the two had a 90 minute discussion and Nate proposed Colin kneel instead of sit.

But why kneel? In a military funeral, after the flag is taken off the casket of the fallen military member, it is smartly folded 13 times and then presented to the parents, spouse or child of the fallen member by a fellow service member while KNEELING. The two decided that kneeling for the flag would symbolize his reverence for those that paid the ultimate sacrifice while still allowing Colin to peacefully protest the injustices he saw.

Empathy, not zealotry under the guise of patriotism, is the only way meaningful discussion can be had. Mr. Kaepernick listened to all of you that say he disrespects the military and extended an olive branch to find a peace.

When will America listen to him?

We can all learn from this backstory. The truth often lies in the middle. Seek to learn the opposing side's point.
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Re: What does it mean when Kaepernick kneels?

Postby Thunder1 » September 30th 2017, 4:59pm

So now we know...
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Re: What does it mean when Kaepernick kneels?

Postby spanky1 » September 30th 2017, 5:28pm

I like this version better.

http://dailycaller.com/2016/08/29/kaepe ... d-protest/

"The dual-threat quarterback stated, “I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses Black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.”

"You know where else there were dead American bodies? The beaches of Normandy, the beaches of Japan, the Ardennes Forest, the mountains of Afghanistan, the deserts Iraq and many more places were members of the United States military paid the ultimate sacrifice. Not standing up for the national anthem doesn’t make you a hero. Holding the line during the Battle of the Bulge with limited ammo, no air support, no winter clothing and little food makes you a hero."

http://dailycaller.com/2016/08/27/hooks ... -the-flag/
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Re: What does it mean when Kaepernick kneels?

Postby bedlam » September 30th 2017, 5:32pm

spanky1 wrote:I like this version better.

http://dailycaller.com/2016/08/29/kaepe ... d-protest/

You "like" a more divisive version. Why?
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Re: What does it mean when Kaepernick kneels?

Postby spanky1 » September 30th 2017, 5:39pm

Hi bedlam, How are you seeing my post. I thought you added me to your (foes, ignore list. :D)
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Re: What does it mean when Kaepernick kneels?

Postby AJC » September 30th 2017, 5:52pm

Who is this Kaepernick guy? I've been watching football all season and haven't seen him play in one single game. Hmmm...
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Re: What does it mean when Kaepernick kneels?

Postby spanky1 » September 30th 2017, 5:54pm

AJC wrote:Who is this Kaepernick guy? I've been watching football all season and haven't seen him play in one single game. Hmmm...


:chump: :npkjp,: :bvbvbv:
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Re: What does it mean when Kaepernick kneels?

Postby conjurer » September 30th 2017, 9:04pm

spanky1 wrote:
AJC wrote:Who is this Kaepernick guy? I've been watching football all season and haven't seen him play in one single game. Hmmm...


:chump: :npkjp,: :bvbvbv:


Goddamn it, Andrew, this made me smile quite broadly as well.
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Re: What does it mean when Kaepernick kneels?

Postby Mortuus » September 30th 2017, 9:22pm

As a military retiree, I never felt that Colin Kaepernick -- AKA "Old Insta-'Fro" -- and his kneeling was disrespectful to any military persons, active or retired. But now, if this article is to be believed, I understand far more than I think I did before I read and re-read it. Several times.

Where I go off the 'rails of understanding' is figuring out what, exactly, are all these kneelers protesting about? Our mistreatment of people of color, he says. Okay. What are his metrics? Police shootings? Black (and other minority) unemployment? Poverty among people of color? The number of times someone utters the "n-word?"

These are all bad things, but are any of them really a part of a conscious decision by someone in power to make them official parts of our government's policy? Did someone really say, "Hey, let's abuse people of color"? And did someone else then say, "Yes sir, we'll get right on it"?

Something isn't right here. It just doesn't feel right. I mean, I've been to a country where the treatment of non-whites was, at the time, part of its government's official policies. That country was South Africa, and you can't seriously tell me that we're anywhere as bad as they were.

Here's what I think, and, in truth, believe. This whole goat-rope is just one more thing to be piled on top of the dog-pile that's already on President Trump's back, with everyone involved complaining bitterly about every single thing he does, day in, day out, ad infinitum, until such time to be determined by those who rewrite history to their liking to say "enough." Seriously, this is the same country that, until less than a year ago, was led by its first black president, Barack H. Obama. Why didn't CK -- and all those me-too lemmings -- seek to kneel then? Has President Trump, in only nine short months, turned us into South Africa?

Now I'm sure I'm about to be bombarded with a dozen different "facts" about the US that will show, beyond a doubt that I should be ashamed of her, and that the only thing I can do to pay back what is owed is to start pandering to those who say that this is an evil, racist country -- um, since January of 2017, anyhow; and, uh, well, before 2009, of course. Like that snot-nosed, pandering Jerry Jones, "owner" (or master, perhaps?) of the NFL Dallas Cowboys. Do ANY of you, for one moment, think that clown was out there kneeling, arms linked with "his" (slaves) players, because he really believes all this tripe that's now the hype? (If you do, then perhaps a stay in the mental ward of your choice is in order...)

Or maybe old Jerry's afraid that, like that poor, stupid schlub in Smell-A, who had his team taken away from him and sold against his will because of something he said about another race, he, too, will lose his team if he doesn't get out there and bow his head and pray to the Great Progressive Left, God of ALL Gods, to please-please-please let him keep "his" (slaves) Cowboys. That's why old (massuh) Jerry's doing this. What a schmuck.

And maybe -- just maybe -- CK and his fellow entertainers are protesting as they are because every single one of them is going to make millions of dollars over the course of their careers, and they feel guilty for taking all that money and buying big houses and expensive cars, and jewelry for wifey, and toys for dad and the kids, and on and on... Well, guys, old and wise Uncle Mort has a solution for you: take those millions and give them ALL to the disadvantaged minority organization of your choice. (Oh, and while you're at it, be sure Jessie and Al get their cut; if they don't you WILL regret it...) Cash out the houses, the cars, the jewelry and get yourself a nice Toyota Pious. Just THINK how much better you'll feel about yourselves when you do all these things. You'll be poor, of course, but that's okay, too, because you'll have the government to lean on for the rest of your lives. C'mown, Man! DO IT!! You'll be so very GLAD you did!

And if you don't do it, then you need to shut your fucking collective gob and sit your asses back on the fucking bench, like CK originally did, because not ONE of you pampered, steroidal freaks are fit to lick the boot soles of the men and women who've kneeled before a widow, or a widower, or a weeping child, and presented them with the flag that you and your galactically hypocritical ilk refuse to honor as you kneel in mockery in front of all those people who've paid to come and see you play a fucking game, not watch you pander to the left. And, of course, you think all these people, both at the stadium and at home, are just too stupid to understand what you're doing. Well, this retired naval officer knows exactly what you're doing, and as far as I -- and many other military people are concerned -- you can all go and copulate with yourselves.

Hey, CK and all of those protestors can do what they want. It's their God-given right, and it's protected under our Constitution. And I spent 26 years of my life protecting those rights. But it's also my right to call it as I see it, even though I know I'm going to be labeled as a "wascally Wepubwickan Wacist." Or snowed under with 50 pages of illegible and illiterate statistics to "prove" I'm wrong. Or just plain called a bunch of names, with 'stupid' and 'ignorant' chief among them. Fine. Go for it. But remember what I said here: not one of those fucking NFL wonks is worth a small tin of dogshit when compared to the lowliest private, airman, seaman or rifleman. And every time one of them is killed, you ought to thank your lucky stars that you get to collect millions of dollars to play in less than 20 games a year, and while you're worried about an ankle sprain or a concussion, these young men and women are worried about IED's, rockets, bombs. and all the other things that could get them killed.

And while you're at it, you ought to take a moment to kiss their asses...and mine, while you're at it.
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Re: What does it mean when Kaepernick kneels?

Postby biglove » September 30th 2017, 9:35pm

Perfect, Mort. Just what needs to be said.
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Re: What does it mean when Kaepernick kneels?

Postby conjurer » September 30th 2017, 10:45pm

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Although this has been attributed to George Orwell, he apparently never said (or wrote) it. Whatever. I am one of those who slept peaceably in his bed. And I honor those rough men who allowed me to do it.

I have no doubt that Colin Kaepernick is an asshole; a few years back, I guy I worked with showed me an Instagram (or whateverthefuck it's called) pic from Kaepernick's account, and he showed all the Nike shoes he owned. Then, he showed me a few pics from the Seahawks quarterback's Russell Wilson's account, where he showed pics of the kids he met at Seattle Children's Hospital, where he visited every week (and still visits to this day). These were kids who were fighting cancer and other appalling diseases, and gave some hope to. This told me that:

A: Colin Kaepernick was an asshole, and:

B: Russell Wilson wasn't.

However, whatever Colin Kaepernick's motive for not standing for the National Anthem or the American flag doesn't matter. The fact that he made his protest peaceably is the important thing. No one was hurt. Agree or disagree, he made his protest and it was noted and that's the end to it.

I myself stand when the National Anthem is played, and put my hand over my heart. I'm not a hero, neither is Kaepernick. Some years ago, I watched an episode of PBS's Frontline TV show called "Bad Voodoo's War," where one of the young men in the platoon featured had personally killed five Iraqi's T-72 tanks in the battle for Baghdad. This is a hero.

Colin Kaepernick is an asshole, and not a hero. However, to require or insist that somebody shows honor or the flag does no honor to the flag or the Republic; instead, it is fascist.

And we are not fascists.
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Re: What does it mean when Kaepernick kneels?

Postby bedlam » September 30th 2017, 11:22pm

spanky1 wrote:Hi bedlam, How are you seeing my post. I thought you added me to your (foes, ignore list. :D)

I did. Gives me the option to control the troll level in a given thread. If I want to look I can.

You still avoid answering direct questions I see. Nothing has changed since the last time I looked - its still all troll.
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Re: What does it mean when Kaepernick kneels?

Postby DocKlock » October 1st 2017, 5:17am

Mort, well thought out and extremely well written.
Thank you for your service and for standing up (no pun intended) for American values.
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Re: What does it mean when Kaepernick kneels?

Postby spanky1 » October 1st 2017, 5:44am

Classic Mort: You deserve a Pulitzer Prize for online journalism.

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Re: What does it mean when Kaepernick kneels?

Postby codguy » October 1st 2017, 9:07am

I align with Mort for alot of the same reasons.

My personal take.......

1st- They do not have 1st amendment protection to protest on the job-site if against company policy-------> period. The First Amendment is protection from the government of free speech .
The players can elect to leave the employment if against employment policy and if they feel this strongly for the cause . It is all up to the Owners, Commisioner (and ultimately the fans) for whom they work for.

2nd- Want to protest (sit/kneel/etc)? How about before or after the National Anthem, or simply stay the fuck in the locker room until it is over. That way they are not disrespecting or simply pissing off common folk like me. Oh, they may also get to miss the patriotic military fly-overs that are shove down peoples throats.

3rd- The left now has a taking point that says many players are kneeling in prayer during the NA, praying for healing of this nation. Full support from the lefties on this.... but many of them got all bent out of shape when a god fearing Tebow decided to talk to his lord on the field.

4th- Spin it anyway you try, disrespecting the flag/national anthem disrespects current & past military. I speak personally giving over 20 years of my life defending this piece of cloth, for which many have given the ultimate sacrifice for.

5th- CK is a joke (pig socks and all), and so are members of my local NFL team. That coming from a season ticket holder since 1999.

6th- I aint as goud writing as tha ded guy, jus wanted to give my 2₵ two pad me post count.
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Re: What does it mean when Kaepernick kneels?

Postby jaw » October 1st 2017, 10:16am

Well Mort (and others), congratulations! I guess you can count yourself among those that don't even know or care to understand what he was protesting in the first place. Mostly because the issue doesn't affect them. They're too focused on his act - not his reason. Shame to waste all that verbiage and angst without really knowing why, huh?

Most Kaepernick detractors are flailing and splitting hairs over things he never said or did - all straw (as usual). They want to dismiss and excuse away the real issue of a broken country. In fact, he has clearly (and repeatedly), stated his love for this country, the military, and the flag. Pretty typical to conflate CK support with Trump hate. This is an attempt to excuse and dilute CK's original (and noble) motive to make America better. Moreover, his salary is irrelevant, his wife-beating dog-fighting buddies are irrelevant, and one black president does not a post-racial society make - I think you know that. Yes, the pig-socks and not voting were stupid, but still irrelevant. Take them and Kaepernick away and the police brutality and mass incarceration problems still remain.

I'm glad you at least acknowledge his right to protest as is your right to not like it. Our flag represents the entire Constitution not just the current (and exploited), military fixation. He's protesting the larger part still not living up to its promise. Difficult to revere something that has come to represent hypocrisy to so many for so long. Surely a Watchlord understands that. But nothing makes white America more nervous than a little black solidarity now does it? Nope, they just don't like it. So they vilify him like branding a rape victim a slut. Let's say she hates the flag and military too while we're at it - and half the country fell for it - Suckers. Tough shit, you cannot force respect.

That said and for some perspective, I'll leave you with a quote and a couple memes that resonated for me. Love for this country and peaceful dissent are not mutually exclusive - I would even argue that they must coexist. The military disrespect ploy while very effective, has absolutely nothing to do with it, except for the 4 black veterans killed by the police below. Police brutality against blacks is Kaepernick's primary cause. Quite worthy (and necessary), even from worthless NFL players. It's a legal peaceful symbolic protest against a symbol - that's is all.

Tom Morello wrote:“It’s telling that when athletes protest racism, it’s assumed that they’re protesting America,” he said. “There’s two sides of the flag. There’s the flag that flew over the founding of our democracy, and over soldiers who fought in our wars, and was emblazoned on our uniforms on the heroic 9/11 first responders. It’s the same flag that flew over slavery and the genocide of the Native American population, the napalming of Vietnamese children, the destruction of Afghanistan’s civilian hospitals. It’s also on the uniform of every police officer who has killed an innocent African-American person. It’s also the flag that is in every courtroom of every Judge who has let every one of those cops go free.” (source)


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Re: What does it mean when Kaepernick kneels?

Postby spanky1 » October 1st 2017, 1:33pm

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Re: What does it mean when Kaepernick kneels?

Postby tiktok » October 1st 2017, 1:57pm

Spunky you really are a loathsome troll.
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Re: What does it mean when Kaepernick kneels?

Postby foghorn » October 1st 2017, 1:58pm

Pats lost today but it was a great 3 hours. I love football!!
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Re: What does it mean when Kaepernick kneels?

Postby jaw » October 1st 2017, 2:01pm

tiktok wrote:Spunky you really are a loathsome troll.


While spanky has proven himself to be bereft of the ability to express his own thoughts in his own words, he never fails to emphasize my points. Perhaps he cannot read either. Sometimes I imagine him with a big deck of flash card memes around his neck in order communicate with those around him.
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Re: What does it mean when Kaepernick kneels?

Postby Hawk » October 1st 2017, 2:12pm

I'm not finding too much in the way of anything fundamental to disagree on but I'm connecting (or failing to connect) some of the dots.

The First amendment does indeed protect infringement on the part of government and does not convey any immunity from consequences, social or financial. Here's where those troublesome dots get connected: Trump represents the government meaning he should shut the fuck up about the matter. The latest flurry of tweets crossed the line between one person (Trump) getting offended and speaking as a government representative and now is strongly suggestive that having a big steaming cup of STFU would be his best course of action. On a strictly pragmatic level he's probably got more important stuff to be dealing with.

Kneeling instead of sitting or squatting? The OP sounds plausible and it's been rattling around in my head since I attended my FiL's ceremony with the flag being forked over to his widow in such a fashion. It resembled the NFL goings on but I didn't have any facts to back up the impression. Too bad the old boy is gone - I miss him and I'd bet Mort would enjoy a brew with him - he was a Captain in the Navy and an aviator. He also was an engineer and had something to do with the electronics in the current arrested landing systems.

Colin and his actions? I couldn't give a shit one way or the other. There's little doubt he's a rolling-in-dough privileged dude but if he had the true black experience so to speak would anybody be caring what he did? Probably not but it reminds me of Marlon Brando, native Americans, and the Oscars. Brando had no fucking clue other than what he read or was told and neither does Colin assuming his romance started in high school and proceeded through a full ride in college. But if famous, rich people don't do the social peaceful protests there's not many options - one has to be in the public eye after all for such things to be noticed in the first place. There does seem to be some irony in that only people unfamiliar with the problem they're protesting in general will have an audience to express their position - perhaps I should blame the culture of celebrity?
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Re: What does it mean when Kaepernick kneels?

Postby eddiea » October 1st 2017, 3:53pm

tiktok wrote:Spunky you really are a loathsome troll.


I'm definitely feeling very uncomfortable sharing space in the forum with this dude, not sure what's the reason to continue keeping a racist troll on board but, I'm just reached my personal tolerance limit ...... and I'm out.
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Re: What does it mean when Kaepernick kneels?

Postby Mark1 » October 1st 2017, 4:04pm

eddiea wrote:
tiktok wrote:Spunky you really are a loathsome troll.


I'm definitely feeling very uncomfortable sharing space in the forum with this dude, not sure what's the reason to continue keeping a racist troll on board but, I'm just reached my personal tolerance limit ...... and I'm out.


What Spanky posts isn't any more objectionable than shit I see posted here everyday by others.
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Re: What does it mean when Kaepernick kneels?

Postby foghorn » October 1st 2017, 4:36pm

Spanky's a troll,pure and simple. The only time he offers anything of an horological nature is when he is called out for seldom doing so.
After a few watch related posts he goes right back to Dotardisms.
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Re: What does it mean when Kaepernick kneels?

Postby Thunder1 » October 1st 2017, 4:52pm

foghorn wrote:Spanky's a troll,pure and simple. The only time he offers anything of an horological nature is when he is called out for seldom doing so.
After a few watch related posts he goes right back to Dotardisms.

The truth..
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