Detroit Watch Company M1-Woodward Chronograph Review

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Detroit Watch Company M1-Woodward Chronograph Review

Postby Racer-X » June 22nd 2017, 7:53pm

by Sean Lorentzen "One of the biggest urban success stories of the past few years is the ongoing Detroit Renaissance—once a shell of its former industrial self, the home of the American automobile is buzzing again with new life, culture, and yes, creation. Today’s watch, the Detroit Watch Co. M1-Woodward chronograph, is a perfect example of this revitalized spirit."

Review at Worn & Wound
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Re: Detroit Watch Company M1-Woodward Chronograph Review

Postby bedlam » June 22nd 2017, 9:18pm

I feel the 'urban success story', 'revitalised spirit', 'Detroit' con has already been done.

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Re: Detroit Watch Company M1-Woodward Chronograph Review

Postby conjurer » June 22nd 2017, 9:48pm

Nothing says quality like "Made in Detroit."
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Re: Detroit Watch Company M1-Woodward Chronograph Review

Postby PiningforElgin » July 5th 2017, 5:03pm

Anyone with experience has anything negative to say about DWC?

IMO a Detroit assembled watch with 7750 priced around 1000 is rather reasonable. 7750 watches are around that price
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Re: Detroit Watch Company M1-Woodward Chronograph Review

Postby bedlam » July 5th 2017, 5:23pm

PiningforElgin wrote:Anyone with experience has anything negative to say about DWC?

IMO a Detroit assembled watch with 7750 priced around 1000 is rather reasonable. 7750 watches are around that price

You say the movement is the heart of the watch, so yeah, tons of experience with that movement.

The DWC founder is Patrick Ayoub a car design guy who co-founded the Bozeman Watch Company that failed a decade ago.

After cutting and running from Bozeman; "people started asking why we didn't have our own brand."

What was missing, Patrick said, was a story behind the product. "You have to have a story, and we didn't have one. We thought we would move on."

"We were walking in downtown Detroit, and felt so inspired," Amy said. "We turned to leave, and in that moment Patrick said, 'I think I finally figured out what to call our watch company. It was an epiphany."


Yup, apparently Detroit was a marketing epiphany for this guy. So even the guys core inspiration is a copy of other people's ideas. Like I said, the "Detroit con" has already been done.

7750 movement, designed in Detroit (if you believe that), and components from China. How much experience with that do I really want?

Some real "history":
Bozeman Watch Company closes shop, leaves some buyers in limbo

Though still registered as a limited liability company in Montana, the Bozeman Watch Company seems to have all but disappeared from the state.

Phone calls to the Bozeman, Whitefish and Birmingham, Michigan, stores reveal disconnected phones. The Bozeman home phone of Christopher Wardle, the CEO of the company, is also disconnected.

Emails to the company were returned — with a message that the email account no longer existed.

McCarty is just one of a handful of customers who paid thousands for luxury watches they never received. Some have taken Wardle and his company to court over the deals gone bad.

At least three lawsuits filed in Gallatin County in 2011 and 2012 against the Bozeman Watch Company and Wardle have been dismissed, according to court records. The cases may have been settled out of court, though it’s unclear from records.

http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/ne ... 88ccf.html


DWC contact address is in Birmingham, same as Bozeman's.
Last edited by bedlam on July 5th 2017, 10:15pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Detroit Watch Company M1-Woodward Chronograph Review

Postby PiningforElgin » July 5th 2017, 6:00pm

bedlam wrote:
PiningforElgin wrote:Anyone with experience has anything negative to say about DWC?

IMO a Detroit assembled watch with 7750 priced around 1000 is rather reasonable. 7750 watches are around that price

You say the movement is the heart of the watch, so yeah, tons of experience with that movement.

The DWC founder is Patrick Ayoub a car design guy whose failed Bozeman Watch Company failed a decade ago.

After cutting and running from Bozeman; "people started asking why we didn't have our own brand."

What was missing, Patrick said, was a story behind the product. "You have to have a story, and we didn't have one. We thought we would move on."

"We were walking in downtown Detroit, and felt so inspired," Amy said. "We turned to leave, and in that moment Patrick said, 'I think I finally figured out what to call our watch company. It was an epiphany."


Yup, apparently Detroit was a marketing epiphany for this guy. So even the guys core inspiration is a copy of other people's ideas. Like I said, the "Detroit con" has already been done.

7750 movement, designed in Detroit (if you believe that), and components from China. How much experience with that do I really want?

Some real "history":
Bozeman Watch Company closes shop, leaves some buyers in limbo

Though still registered as a limited liability company in Montana, the Bozeman Watch Company seems to have all but disappeared from the state.

Phone calls to the Bozeman, Whitefish and Birmingham, Michigan, stores reveal disconnected phones. The Bozeman home phone of Christopher Wardle, the CEO of the company, is also disconnected.

Emails to the company were returned — with a message that the email account no longer existed.

McCarty is just one of a handful of customers who paid thousands for luxury watches they never received. Some have taken Wardle and his company to court over the deals gone bad.

At least three lawsuits filed in Gallatin County in 2011 and 2012 against the Bozeman Watch Company and Wardle have been dismissed, according to court records. The cases may have been settled out of court, though it’s unclear from records.

http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/ne ... 88ccf.html


DWC contact address is in Birmingham, same as Bozeman's.


American assembled with foreign parts. Their movements are ETA, like many European watch companies. How are they different from Kobold? Or Bernhardt? The specs don't seem bad to me. There's not yet a design I like so I'm not going to buy anything from them. But they are not any worse than the myriads of European companies doing same things. You think Steinhart cases are actually made in Germany? Baume and Mercier really forged their SS bracelets inside Bienne?
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Re: Detroit Watch Company M1-Woodward Chronograph Review

Postby conjurer » July 5th 2017, 6:05pm

What is it about the watch business? Is it me, or is every other guy in this thing of ours a fucking crook?
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Re: Detroit Watch Company M1-Woodward Chronograph Review

Postby PiningforElgin » July 5th 2017, 7:03pm

conjurer wrote:What is it about the watch business? Is it me, or is every other guy in this thing of ours a fucking crook?


Not just watch business, in every business of making and selling items every other person might be a crook
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Re: Detroit Watch Company M1-Woodward Chronograph Review

Postby MKTheVintageBloke » July 5th 2017, 7:07pm

PiningforElgin wrote:You think Steinhart cases are actually made in Germany? Baume and Mercier really forged their SS bracelets inside Bienne?

Why would Steinhart cases be made in Germany, if the whole watches are Swiss made - as they are marked? Of course, if you know more about where are their cases actually made, I'd really like to know where- I didn't look into Steinhart that much, as most of the forum (WUS) debates on Steinhart concerned the ethical aspect of homage watches (or "hommidges", as some call them), and I had just about enough of flogging the dead horse for the nth time in a row. By the way, Germany has quite a bit of watch case companies, mostly located in Pforzheim.

For what it's worth, buying third party cases or making them in another country was a common practice- think of Omega. The Speedmaster cases were pretty much never made by Omega themselves, but by third party suppliers like Centrale Boites, Huguenin Freres... Among other suppliers, there was also EPSA (Piquerez). Solid gold Omegas made for the British market usually had Dennison cases (and truth be told, gold cases and bracelets are almost always third party ones, as hardly any manufacturer ever had their own foundry), American market watches (from any Swiss brand) were usually cased locally, due to import taxes on whole watches (it was cheaper to import dials, hands and movements as "watch parts" for which the tariffs were lower, and to case them in the US). So, in terms of third party or outsourced cases, I don't really mind- as long as they're not made in China, as for me "made in China" has never inspired confidence.

Concerning Swiss movements in American, German or any other watches- the Swiss and the Japanese have pretty much destroyed the generic movement suppliers everywhere else. American watchmaking has been killed off by the Swiss and Japanese alright, German suppliers like Durowe and Foerster couldn't have survived competing with the Swiss, and British watchmaking has gone almost extinct when Smiths closed down for good (most British-made wristwatches had Swiss movements, and so it was since the 1910s). That said, what else to expect? Non-Swiss generic movement suppliers don't exactly pop up like mushrooms.

Regarding bracelets, they were (think of Gay Freres, who supplied bracelets to a lot of big names in the Swiss watch industry, including Rolex, Patek, Zenith, Omega, Eterna, Certina, and many more) and are often supplied by an external contractor as well. Then again, is there any evidence, that B&M don't make their own bracelets?
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Re: Detroit Watch Company M1-Woodward Chronograph Review

Postby conjurer » July 5th 2017, 7:16pm

For most brands under the $500-$1000 mark, I'd assume most of them have their cases made in China. Indeed, I was replacing the battery on one of Mrs. C's Hammies and the inside of the caseback was stamped "China."
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Re: Detroit Watch Company M1-Woodward Chronograph Review

Postby bedlam » July 5th 2017, 7:38pm

PiningforElgin wrote:American assembled with foreign parts. Their movements are ETA, like many European watch companies. How are they different from Kobold? Or Bernhardt? The specs don't seem bad to me. There's not yet a design I like so I'm not going to buy anything from them. But they are not any worse than the myriads of European companies doing same things. You think Steinhart cases are actually made in Germany? Baume and Mercier really forged their SS bracelets inside Bienne?

You are arguing against something I never said. Where did I say they are doing anything different to Steinhart?

I said the opposite, that they were just another company selling an ETA movement in a Chinese case (and I've had a ton of experience with those kinds of watches).

The issue I did point out are the past business practises and the overt fakery of the Detroit connection - a story he admits is just being used to give the company credibility. You avoided commenting on those issues for some reason. Why do you choose to defend them?

At Watchlords we are keen to support each other buying anything that tickles your fancy. We just make sure our members get access to information so they can go in with their eyes open.
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Re: Detroit Watch Company M1-Woodward Chronograph Review

Postby PiningforElgin » July 5th 2017, 9:12pm

bedlam wrote:
PiningforElgin wrote:American assembled with foreign parts. Their movements are ETA, like many European watch companies. How are they different from Kobold? Or Bernhardt? The specs don't seem bad to me. There's not yet a design I like so I'm not going to buy anything from them. But they are not any worse than the myriads of European companies doing same things. You think Steinhart cases are actually made in Germany? Baume and Mercier really forged their SS bracelets inside Bienne?

You are arguing against something I never said. Where did I say they are doing anything different to Steinhart?

I said the opposite, that they were just another company selling an ETA movement in a Chinese case (and I've had a ton of experience with those kinds of watches).

The issue I did point out are the past business practises and the overt fakery of the Detroit connection - a story he admits is just being used to give the company credibility. You avoided commenting on those issues for some reason. Why do you choose to defend them?

At Watchlords we are keen to support each other buying anything that tickles your fancy. We just make sure our members get access to information so they can go in with their eyes open.


I have no dog in this fight. But you seem to target American companies that at least provide some American manufacturing jobs in Detroit who does a few controversial or unsavory things just like the much loved European peers. Their assembly is done in Detroit right? So, everything else equal, I'm saying DWC is nowhere worse than standard operating procedure of any European company, except their employees happen to be in my country. Defending them? I don't own their watch, and has no plans of owning one in near future
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Re: Detroit Watch Company M1-Woodward Chronograph Review

Postby PiningforElgin » July 5th 2017, 9:15pm

MKTheVintageBloke wrote:
PiningforElgin wrote:You think Steinhart cases are actually made in Germany? Baume and Mercier really forged their SS bracelets inside Bienne?

Why would Steinhart cases be made in Germany, if the whole watches are Swiss made - as they are marked? Of course, if you know more about where are their cases actually made, I'd really like to know where- I didn't look into Steinhart that much, as most of the forum (WUS) debates on Steinhart concerned the ethical aspect of homage watches (or "hommidges", as some call them), and I had just about enough of flogging the dead horse for the nth time in a row. By the way, Germany has quite a bit of watch case companies, mostly located in Pforzheim.

For what it's worth, buying third party cases or making them in another country was a common practice- think of Omega. The Speedmaster cases were pretty much never made by Omega themselves, but by third party suppliers like Centrale Boites, Huguenin Freres... Among other suppliers, there was also EPSA (Piquerez). Solid gold Omegas made for the British market usually had Dennison cases (and truth be told, gold cases and bracelets are almost always third party ones, as hardly any manufacturer ever had their own foundry), American market watches (from any Swiss brand) were usually cased locally, due to import taxes on whole watches (it was cheaper to import dials, hands and movements as "watch parts" for which the tariffs were lower, and to case them in the US). So, in terms of third party or outsourced cases, I don't really mind- as long as they're not made in China, as for me "made in China" has never inspired confidence.

Concerning Swiss movements in American, German or any other watches- the Swiss and the Japanese have pretty much destroyed the generic movement suppliers everywhere else. American watchmaking has been killed off by the Swiss and Japanese alright, German suppliers like Durowe and Foerster couldn't have survived competing with the Swiss, and British watchmaking has gone almost extinct when Smiths closed down for good (most British-made wristwatches had Swiss movements, and so it was since the 1910s). That said, what else to expect? Non-Swiss generic movement suppliers don't exactly pop up like mushrooms.

Regarding bracelets, they were (think of Gay Freres, who supplied bracelets to a lot of big names in the Swiss watch industry, including Rolex, Patek, Zenith, Omega, Eterna, Certina, and many more) and are often supplied by an external contractor as well. Then again, is there any evidence, that B&M don't make their own bracelets?


I by and large concur with you. I just think there's sometimes a double standard when it comes to American companies who do same things Europeans do yet get more flak from critics than their peer across the ocean. If we are accusing DWC of phoniness the same charge can be leveled at anyone using any Chinese parts
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Re: Detroit Watch Company M1-Woodward Chronograph Review

Postby bedlam » July 5th 2017, 9:18pm

PiningforElgin wrote:I have no dog in this fight. But you seem to target American companies that at least provide some American manufacturing jobs in Detroit who does a few controversial or unsavory things just like the much loved European peers. Their assembly is done in Detroit right? So, everything else equal, I'm saying DWC is nowhere worse than standard operating procedure of any European company, except their employees happen to be in my country. Defending them? I don't own their watch, and has no plans of owning one in near future

Love the Europeans? Heh, heh. You don't know me very well 8-)
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Re: Detroit Watch Company M1-Woodward Chronograph Review

Postby PiningforElgin » July 5th 2017, 9:19pm

Anyways, too much drinking has gotten me confused Steinhart with another German brand (Stowa maybe). I remember nothing
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Re: Detroit Watch Company M1-Woodward Chronograph Review

Postby conjurer » July 5th 2017, 10:04pm

bedlam wrote:
PiningforElgin wrote:I have no dog in this fight. But you seem to target American companies that at least provide some American manufacturing jobs in Detroit who does a few controversial or unsavory things just like the much loved European peers. Their assembly is done in Detroit right? So, everything else equal, I'm saying DWC is nowhere worse than standard operating procedure of any European company, except their employees happen to be in my country. Defending them? I don't own their watch, and has no plans of owning one in near future

Love the Europeans? Heh, heh. You don't know me very well 8-)


Indeed. While Mr. Bedlam sometimes slums around with a Swiss watch on his wrist, he generally wears mainly Japanese.

Also, Mr. Bedlam very expertly points out that the owner of Detroit Watch Company assraped customers when he put up the shutters of his previous company (a story I was unfamiliar with--I had heard of Bozeman before, but knew very little of what had happened to it.) Now, here at Watchlords, we take a pretty dim view of watch company owners who, well, fucking fail at delivering product. They are crooks, scam artists, whatever you like to call them; we call them out and, hopefully, make their bullshit part of the public record.

If a guy can cut and run and leave his customers holding the bag, that is the full story. He is untrustworthy. I don't care if his new company makes watches from shredded unicorns and sprinkles fucking pixie dust in the movements to make them more accurate. The whole Detroit-made thing is a fucking scam in itself--look into Shinola's crap and you'll find out that the cases are probably made in China, the movements are made (hopefully) in Switzerland, and the whole package is cased and finished in the US; if somebody wants to pay premium prices for that, that's their business. However, as far as I know, Shinola hasn't taken somebody's pre-payment and run for the state line.

Again, AFAIK, the only guy who's actually making watches and movements in the USA is Roland Murphy--and you're going to pay through the nose for them.
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Re: Detroit Watch Company M1-Woodward Chronograph Review

Postby bedlam » July 5th 2017, 10:19pm

conjurer wrote:Again, AFAIK, the only guy who's actually making watches and movements in the USA is Roland Murphy--and you're going to pay through the nose for them.

RGM are the real deal.
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Re: Detroit Watch Company M1-Woodward Chronograph Review

Postby PiningforElgin » July 5th 2017, 10:57pm

conjurer wrote:
bedlam wrote:
PiningforElgin wrote:I have no dog in this fight. But you seem to target American companies that at least provide some American manufacturing jobs in Detroit who does a few controversial or unsavory things just like the much loved European peers. Their assembly is done in Detroit right? So, everything else equal, I'm saying DWC is nowhere worse than standard operating procedure of any European company, except their employees happen to be in my country. Defending them? I don't own their watch, and has no plans of owning one in near future

Love the Europeans? Heh, heh. You don't know me very well 8-)


Indeed. While Mr. Bedlam sometimes slums around with a Swiss watch on his wrist, he generally wears mainly Japanese.

Also, Mr. Bedlam very expertly points out that the owner of Detroit Watch Company assraped customers when he put up the shutters of his previous company (a story I was unfamiliar with--I had heard of Bozeman before, but knew very little of what had happened to it.) Now, here at Watchlords, we take a pretty dim view of watch company owners who, well, fucking fail at delivering product. They are crooks, scam artists, whatever you like to call them; we call them out and, hopefully, make their bullshit part of the public record.

If a guy can cut and run and leave his customers holding the bag, that is the full story. He is untrustworthy. I don't care if his new company makes watches from shredded unicorns and sprinkles fucking pixie dust in the movements to make them more accurate. The whole Detroit-made thing is a fucking scam in itself--look into Shinola's crap and you'll find out that the cases are probably made in China, the movements are made (hopefully) in Switzerland, and the whole package is cased and finished in the US; if somebody wants to pay premium prices for that, that's their business. However, as far as I know, Shinola hasn't taken somebody's pre-payment and run for the state line.

Again, AFAIK, the only guy who's actually making watches and movements in the USA is Roland Murphy--and you're going to pay through the nose for them.


With my apologies to Mr. Bedlam. I was certainly projecting as I'm the one whos buying too many products from Swatch Group despite any ethical issues they may have. Might become an addiction ;)

Vortic would count as American too right since they are using recycled movements made in American vintage pocket watches (admittedly they didn't make movements yet the movements are veritably from the country)? Also Keaton Myrick. There's Weiss whose movements contain foreign jewels and hairspring but have all other stuff made here

Did a bit googling it's alleged that Patrick Ayoub left Bozeman in 2010 while Bozeman swindled their customers by closing shop in 2015. It's debatable whether he was in on the scheme that occurred five years after he left.

Either way I appreciate the information!
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Re: Detroit Watch Company M1-Woodward Chronograph Review

Postby eddiea » July 6th 2017, 1:08pm

Aside from a busy dial, not a bad looking watch...the only issue I see is the price range , too rich for my blood considering what's been offered in return....pass
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Re: Detroit Watch Company M1-Woodward Chronograph Review

Postby eddiea » July 6th 2017, 1:14pm

conjurer wrote:Nothing says quality like "Made in Detroit."

Is it Seiko Made in Detroit these days?.....
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