"Technica Swiss Ebauche" scam/sham/BS-tactic

All things related to "SWISS" Invicta watches and Chinese movements

"Technica Swiss Ebauche" scam/sham/BS-tactic

Postby timex » March 28th 2013, 3:20am

TemerityB wrote:
koimaster wrote:
What they have today is shit, plain and simple. With the exception of the S1, every one of the above had a automatic or mechanical movement and none were technica swiss ebauche.


You know, as I re-read this thread, that's a great point. The entire "Technica Swiss Ebauche" scam/sham/come-on doesn't get nearly enough play among the great IWG BS tactics of all time - but it deserves to be a lot more prominent.


TemerityB & Koi, both mentioned, "Technica Swiss Ebauche" = TSE.
I had posted some info, on another forum, I'll re-post it here.
I don't remember where I got it from originally, or how much is accurate.

I would like to know more about it.
I would appreciate more knowledge about the whole scam.


Here is what I had read, I honestly don't remember where it came from.
If you know the source, post it, so I can give credit.
Also how accurate & complete, is it.

Thanks
Tim

Technica Swiss Ebauches


The US owned Invicta Watch Group have long used mechanical movements from well-known sources such as ETA and Miyota. In the mid 2000s they expanded their range to include watches with mechanical movements described as "Technica Swiss Ebauches".

When questioned, Invicta have stated that Technica Swiss Ebauches is not a company, but simply a brand registered to Invicta. There has been speculation that Invicta were running a movement-finishing facility in Switzerland, but they have been found to have no holdings in that country. Later there were claims that the Technica movements were sourced from Japan, although they did not match the appearance of any known Japanese calibres.


When questioned specifically about the Technica 1902, which looks identical to the Sea-Gull ST1902, Eyal Lalo owner of Invicta stated that it was in fact assembled from Sea-Gull parts, with Sea-Gull technical assistance, at an Invicta-owned facility in Korea.

The name Technica Swiss Ebauches has caused confusion with some consumers who assume that it implies a certain amount of Swiss content in the movement, however it is important to note that Invicta watches marked as having Technica Swiss Ebauches movements are never labelled either "Swiss Made" or "Swiss Movement". Conversely, Invicta watches labelled "Swiss Made" never have TSA movements.

The term Swiss Ebauches Microtechnique has also been used apparently interchangeably with Technica Swiss Ebauches to describe Invicta's Chinese sourced movements. Technica Swiss Ebauches should not be confused with the von Burg-owned quartz movement manufacturer Swissebauches Ltd.

Some known Chinese calibres rebadged as Technica Swiss Ebauches

Sea-Gull ST19 chronograph

Sea-Gull ST22 dual-movement

Sea-Gull ST36 skeleton

Standard skeleton

Hangzhou 2189 & 2198 skeletons

Shanghai 2H 'four eyes'
USN-R Bubblehead, Order of the Bluenose & Shellback.
User avatar
timex
Senior Member & WIS
 
Posts: 230
Joined: February 20th 2013, 11:00pm
Location: Long Island/ NY

Re: "Technica Swiss Ebauche" scam/sham/BS-tactic

Postby codguy » March 28th 2013, 3:58am

Your thread title says it all.

Thanks for posting.
.

Image
User avatar
codguy
ASSHAT
 
Posts: 4999
Joined: June 9th 2011, 10:00pm

Re: "Technica Swiss Ebauche" scam/sham/BS-tactic

Postby hcharles » March 28th 2013, 5:04am

The term Technica Swiss Ebauches is indeed misleading. Eyal hemmed and hawed on the Slop when asked to explain it, and could not give a straight story. He later said that they were Far East production.
So why use Swiss at all? Snowjob! BS!!!
Since light travels faster than sound, some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine. Abraham lincoln
User avatar
hcharles
Watchlord WIS
 
Posts: 2573
Joined: March 4th 2012, 11:00pm
Location: Snake River Valley

Re: "Technica Swiss Ebauche" scam/sham/BS-tactic

Postby TemerityB » March 28th 2013, 5:43am

Yep, that's the story. And that may have been the time frame when IWG decided to jump the shark and become what they are now - smoke, mirrors, inflated prices, dubious origins, no CS or QC - but a lot of smiles and laughing as poorly trained barkers with shady back stories sell their crap to shut-ins and simpletons on the TV box. After all, they're your "friends," you know.

Anyone who sinks as much as a red cent into that company after learning the facts about it needs a brain enema.
"To really be a watch company, you have to make your own watch with your own movement. Otherwise, you're a casing company." - Roland Murphy
User avatar
TemerityB
ASSHAT
 
Posts: 13060
Joined: June 12th 2010, 10:00pm
Location: New York City

Re: "Technica Swiss Ebauche" scam/sham/BS-tactic

Postby poot74 » March 28th 2013, 6:00am

The term Technica Swiss Ebauches is indeed misleading. Eyal hemmed and
hawed on the Slop when asked to explain it, and could not give a
straight story.


I remember Skelton use to do the same thing...
poot74
Senior Member & WIS
 
Posts: 1368
Joined: June 16th 2010, 10:00pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: "Technica Swiss Ebauche" scam/sham/BS-tactic

Postby TemerityB » March 28th 2013, 6:06am

poot74 wrote:
The term Technica Swiss Ebauches is indeed misleading. Eyal hemmed and
hawed on the Slop when asked to explain it, and could not give a
straight story.


I remember Skelton use to do the same thing...


That's probably because Skelton is nothing more than a lying TV shill who would do anything sell a watch to perpetuate his little faux part-time "TV" jobs.

I mean, the guys been caught in these falsehoods so many time at this juncture that he's a walking self-parody. And to think there's alway a paper trail proving him to be, well, what he is.

I heard WOW will soon be seen on the Two Soup Cans Tied Together With A String Network, so make your plans now.
"To really be a watch company, you have to make your own watch with your own movement. Otherwise, you're a casing company." - Roland Murphy
User avatar
TemerityB
ASSHAT
 
Posts: 13060
Joined: June 12th 2010, 10:00pm
Location: New York City

Re: "Technica Swiss Ebauche" scam/sham/BS-tactic

Postby koimaster » March 28th 2013, 6:21am

And there was some mis-information out there also such as this-
http://blog.breitlingsource.com/2009/12/03/technica-1902-and-the-swiss-made-sham/

And this post from me in 2009 -


Subject: Swiss Ebauche Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:40 am

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Watch U Seek, one of the Gold Standards of watch forums. Of course this one is catching up to them albeit slowly

In the WUS Interview with Eyal in 02-2004 with Oompa Lupah and Eyal.....here is how he answered the Ebauche question...

" In my opinion you are not a serious watch maker unless you can also make your own movements. That's why Inivcta has its own company Technic Swiss Ebauche Microtenique, developing its own line of movements. this is somehting we addressed in the third issue of .... An ebauche is a movement minus the balance, escapement, .... In essence, it's a building block or a "blank". The watchmakers procure their ebauches from contries like Switzerland and France ... and often source many of the other componenets from all over the world. The Ebauches and components are the n assembled, and often customized with particular complications, at the watchmaker's faciliities. Because of this , there are similarities in movements made by companies like Swiss ETA, Seiko and Miyota."

This was followed up by a questions as to what companies make your Swiss movement blanks? to which Eyal replied....
(I will tell you if..)" Only if you can get me the Coronel's secret recipe! Just kidding! Although I would like to answer your question I can not. I would be giving away secrets...




Probably some swiss parts in the movement. Some of the movement parts are shipped to Asia where the labor is much cheaper and constructed there with additional Asian parts perhaps.

Invicta and others are somewhat secretive about exactly what they do. And I do want to make clear that Invicta is NOT the only one doing this. But they are the only one I know of that uses the words Swiss in the words. Technica Swiss Ebauche and for many that is confusing. I will give credit to some of the hosts of some cable shows who try to correct the perception that these are Swiss made.


Last edited by koimaster on Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

http://xtrememeantime.forumotion.com/t419-swiss-ebauche


http://xtrememeantime.forumotion.com/t1132-where-are-the-technica-swiss-ebauche-movements

http://www.watchtalkforums.info/forums/original-invicta-forum/38034.htm


http://forums.watchuseek.com/f72/new-swiss-made-invicta-st1902-movement-123929.html

Image

1946-2006

“Your heart was warm and happy

With the lilt of Irish laughter

Every day and in every way

Now forever and ever after."
User avatar
koimaster
Administrator/Founder
 
Posts: 32126
Joined: December 16th 2009, 11:00pm
Location: Oregon

Re: "Technica Swiss Ebauche" scam/sham/BS-tactic

Postby poot74 » March 28th 2013, 6:33am

I heard WOW will soon be seen on the Two Soup Cans Tied Together With A String Network, so make your plans now.


Progresso cans?
poot74
Senior Member & WIS
 
Posts: 1368
Joined: June 16th 2010, 10:00pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: "Technica Swiss Ebauche" scam/sham/BS-tactic

Postby poot74 » March 28th 2013, 6:38am

Only if you can get me the Coronel's secret recipe! Just kidding!
Although I would like to answer your question I can not. I would be
giving away secrets...


I can see Skelton's ugly mug making his silly faces when Lalo said this...
poot74
Senior Member & WIS
 
Posts: 1368
Joined: June 16th 2010, 10:00pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: "Technica Swiss Ebauche" scam/sham/BS-tactic

Postby supernovae » March 28th 2013, 6:50am

poot74 wrote:
Only if you can get me the Coronel's secret recipe! Just kidding!
Although I would like to answer your question I can not. I would be
giving away secrets...


I can see Skelton's ugly mug making his silly faces when Lalo said this...


Image
User avatar
supernovae
Senior Member & WIS
 
Posts: 408
Joined: January 28th 2013, 11:00pm

Re: "Technica Swiss Ebauche" scam/sham/BS-tactic

Postby conjurer » March 28th 2013, 7:26am

I think the whole TSE flap is a pretty old topic--it is, of course, of historical interest, since this is the first time I can recall of one of Invicter's outrageous statements getting called out and debunked on various fora, which caused Eyal to drop the whole thing PDQ.

The genesis of this was the claim that Invicter had a Korean factory that was making a manufacture Invicta movement--it became clear that these "TSE" movements were just Seagulls, and we haven't heard this claim since, at least that I've heard.
Johannes! My knees are trembling from banging her so hard with my rod!

Image
User avatar
conjurer
ASSHAT & Master of Time
 
Posts: 24490
Joined: July 13th 2010, 10:00pm

Re: "Technica Swiss Ebauche" scam/sham/BS-tactic

Postby Horse Feathers » March 28th 2013, 7:32am

The amount of time and energy spent to plan,execute and defend deceit must come fairly close to building a honest and reliable watch
Image

"I did lose a pusher pulling it out of the mug however
it doesn't affect functionality"

- JR of Reclinervision ™
User avatar
Horse Feathers
ASSHAT
 
Posts: 9282
Joined: August 29th 2010, 10:00pm

Re: "Technica Swiss Ebauche" scam/sham/BS-tactic

Postby TemerityB » March 28th 2013, 7:33am

Horse Feathers wrote:The amount of time and energy spent to plan,execute and defend deceit must come fairly close to building a honest and reliable watch


Wow, man, you're right - think about that. All this effort spent BSing could be spent on actually giving a rat's ass and delivering a quality product. However, since their main sales platform is the only legalized thing akin to taking candy from a baby, why bother?
"To really be a watch company, you have to make your own watch with your own movement. Otherwise, you're a casing company." - Roland Murphy
User avatar
TemerityB
ASSHAT
 
Posts: 13060
Joined: June 12th 2010, 10:00pm
Location: New York City

Re: "Technica Swiss Ebauche" scam/sham/BS-tactic

Postby DoctorIvey » March 28th 2013, 8:20am

koimaster wrote:And there was some mis-information out there also such as this-
http://blog.breitlingsource.com/2009/12/03/technica-1902-and-the-swiss-made-sham/

And this post from me in 2009 -


Subject: Swiss Ebauche Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:40 am

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Watch U Seek, one of the Gold Standards of watch forums. Of course this one is catching up to them albeit slowly

In the WUS Interview with Eyal in 02-2004 with Oompa Lupah and Eyal.....here is how he answered the Ebauche question...

" In my opinion you are not a serious watch maker unless you can also make your own movements. That's why Inivcta has its own company Technic Swiss Ebauche Microtenique, developing its own line of movements. this is somehting we addressed in the third issue of .... An ebauche is a movement minus the balance, escapement, .... In essence, it's a building block or a "blank". The watchmakers procure their ebauches from contries like Switzerland and France ... and often source many of the other componenets from all over the world. The Ebauches and components are the n assembled, and often customized with particular complications, at the watchmaker's faciliities. Because of this , there are similarities in movements made by companies like Swiss ETA, Seiko and Miyota."

This was followed up by a questions as to what companies make your Swiss movement blanks? to which Eyal replied....
(I will tell you if..)" Only if you can get me the Coronel's secret recipe! Just kidding! Although I would like to answer your question I can not. I would be giving away secrets...




Probably some swiss parts in the movement. Some of the movement parts are shipped to Asia where the labor is much cheaper and constructed there with additional Asian parts perhaps.

Invicta and others are somewhat secretive about exactly what they do. And I do want to make clear that Invicta is NOT the only one doing this. But they are the only one I know of that uses the words Swiss in the words. Technica Swiss Ebauche and for many that is confusing. I will give credit to some of the hosts of some cable shows who try to correct the perception that these are Swiss made.


Last edited by koimaster on Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

http://xtrememeantime.forumotion.com/t419-swiss-ebauche


http://xtrememeantime.forumotion.com/t1132-where-are-the-technica-swiss-ebauche-movements

http://www.watchtalkforums.info/forums/original-invicta-forum/38034.htm


http://forums.watchuseek.com/f72/new-swiss-made-invicta-st1902-movement-123929.html



I believe the secret is in the last part of the name, specifically "Microtenique.' I believe Eyal imports slave labor from Micronesia and Martinique and feeds them a steady diet of crack and beatings in exchange for them finishing his Seagull movements.
User avatar
DoctorIvey
Senior Member & WIS
 
Posts: 1036
Joined: May 19th 2011, 10:00pm

Re: "Technica Swiss Ebauche" scam/sham/BS-tactic

Postby ChronoMATT » March 28th 2013, 8:27am

As most here know, like taking advantage of US Customs import rules with hallmarking dials "Swiss" while the attached watch is made in China, the name "Technica Swiss Ebauche" was created to deceive -- "suggesting" by its name to the typical uneducated TV show watch buyer these cheap Chinese movements have Swiss heritage.

It's all typical contemporary Invicta marketing tactics spearheaded its CEO.
Last edited by Anonymous on March 28th 2013, 8:34am, edited 3 times in total.
Image
User avatar
ChronoMATT
Master of Time
 
Posts: 2432
Joined: June 8th 2011, 10:00pm
Location: Sun Diego, California

Re: "Technica Swiss Ebauche" scam/sham/BS-tactic

Postby timex » March 28th 2013, 8:28am

Horse Feathers wrote:The amount of time and energy spent to plan,execute and defend deceit must come fairly close to building a honest and reliable watch


I agree with you 100%.

Like I said before.

Tim wrote:And everything that gets posted about the company, starts with Eyal Lalo.

Eyal Lalo, having brain storming sessions & meetings about production, marketing, merchandising, branding, distribution, corporate governance, Consumer Satisfaction & Loyalty.

Every Single Facet, of Invicta, is Started & Built on the Premise of Deception.
Not one single honest mistake, can be shown.

Nothing about the company, not one single aspect, started out honestly.

My Grandma, "When fish goes bad, the eyes go first, not the middle or the tail.
It always starts with the Head of the Fish. Life's alot like that."


Seagull, where the Fish Sandwich comment?
USN-R Bubblehead, Order of the Bluenose & Shellback.
User avatar
timex
Senior Member & WIS
 
Posts: 230
Joined: February 20th 2013, 11:00pm
Location: Long Island/ NY

Re: "Technica Swiss Ebauche" scam/sham/BS-tactic

Postby boscoe » March 28th 2013, 9:00am

Yes. Very amusing.
I offered to exchange the secret recipe for John Silver's Fish sammich batter for the Swizz addresses, but Mr. A. Owl declined
User avatar
boscoe
ASSHAT
 
Posts: 9641
Joined: March 31st 2010, 10:00pm

Re: "Technica Swiss Ebauche" scam/sham/BS-tactic

Postby hcharles » March 28th 2013, 1:31pm

Image
Since light travels faster than sound, some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine. Abraham lincoln
User avatar
hcharles
Watchlord WIS
 
Posts: 2573
Joined: March 4th 2012, 11:00pm
Location: Snake River Valley

Re: "Technica Swiss Ebauche" scam/sham/BS-tactic

Postby koimaster » June 23rd 2015, 8:41am

tt
Image

1946-2006

“Your heart was warm and happy

With the lilt of Irish laughter

Every day and in every way

Now forever and ever after."
User avatar
koimaster
Administrator/Founder
 
Posts: 32126
Joined: December 16th 2009, 11:00pm
Location: Oregon

Re: "Technica Swiss Ebauche" scam/sham/BS-tactic

Postby conjurer » June 23rd 2015, 9:16am

Interestingly, I posted about this at BDWF in 2008:

http://bdwf.net/forum/showthread.php?t= ... dvertising
Johannes! My knees are trembling from banging her so hard with my rod!

Image
User avatar
conjurer
ASSHAT & Master of Time
 
Posts: 24490
Joined: July 13th 2010, 10:00pm

Re: "Technica Swiss Ebauche" scam/sham/BS-tactic

Postby foghorn » June 23rd 2015, 9:20am

tEChNICKA sWISSH ORBASCHE is the bestest moovmint I want too bye!!!!!
GET OFF MY LAWN
Image

Finding out the time is about as difficult as finding a cheesburger.
boneyguy, Sep 12, 2007 #12
User avatar
foghorn
Founding Member
 
Posts: 15269
Joined: December 18th 2009, 11:00pm

Re: "Technica Swiss Ebauche" scam/sham/BS-tactic

Postby koimaster » June 23rd 2015, 10:44am

Image
Image

1946-2006

“Your heart was warm and happy

With the lilt of Irish laughter

Every day and in every way

Now forever and ever after."
User avatar
koimaster
Administrator/Founder
 
Posts: 32126
Joined: December 16th 2009, 11:00pm
Location: Oregon


Return to Invicta controversies

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest