Diving with Submariner,Sinn U1,Turtle & PADI

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Diving with Submariner,Sinn U1,Turtle & PADI

Postby koimaster » March 15th 2017, 8:59am

Real World Test: Diving with the Rolex Submariner, Sinn U1, Seiko Turtle & Prospex PADI
A Master Scuba Diver puts a few of modern watchmaking's best known dive watches through their paces.



Being a scuba diver [Ed’s note: the author is a PADI Master Scuba Diver and PADI Emergency First Response (EFR) Instructor] and a watch enthusiast, I decided to put a few well known – and respected – dive watches through their underwater paces on a diving trip that took place in December 2016 off the island of Bali, primarily around the village of Tulamben.

The four watches I brought along this time were – Rolex Submariner “Hulk”, Sinn U1, Seiko Prospex Scuba Diver PADI Titanium, Seiko Prospex “Turtle” – a range of dive watches that were conceived and all built for the same purpose, but are at vastly different price points. However, all four are widely respected as proper dive watches.


http://watchesbysjx.com/2017/03/real-wo ... -padi.html


Kudos to Bedlam for doing the watch color comparison back in 2014 viewtopic.php?f=20&t=24519&hilit=where+did+the+orange+go
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Re: Diving with Submariner,Sinn U1,Turtle & PADI

Postby gerdson » March 18th 2017, 1:47am

The test is really worth reading - for once.

And maybe one of the divers here could also explain to me, why these fishies always look so fucking pissed off:

Image

I have never seen a goddam moray eel in good humor. Ever.
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Re: Diving with Submariner,Sinn U1,Turtle & PADI

Postby bedlam » March 18th 2017, 3:26am

A few things;

- The fixed length of dive extensions is partly the problem. The much bigger issue is they don't adjust at depth, so even if it fits the wetsuit in the boat it won't secure the watch at depth as the suit compresses as you go down.

- He makes the point that a rubber strap is a better option than a bracelet. Rolex doesn't offer a dive strap.

- bezels with low grip should be light. Grippier designs need to be harder to turn. One isn't better than the other, though bumps, cutouts and scallops like you find on Breitlings, Victorinox, Monster, OS200, and Eco-zilla are a bad idea.

- there is no way water pressure was the cause of a bezel being harder to turn underwater, its not sealed at the bottom so water will be acting on all of its surfaces equally.

- 904L stainless steel is not more corrosion resistant than 316 to sea-water at normal temperatures.

- recent evidence indicates the deep stop he described is no longer recommended.

- The Rolex Submariner does not meet the ISO 6425 standard.

Surprisingly the guy decided the best dive watch is the only one that doesn't meet the dive standard or offer a dive strap. Me thinks the Sub was his favourite long before he hit the water for that test.

Awesome pics :-)
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Re: Diving with Submariner,Sinn U1,Turtle & PADI

Postby bedlam » March 18th 2017, 4:07am

gerdson wrote:The test is really worth reading - for once.

And maybe one of the divers here could also explain to me, why these fishies always look so fucking pissed off:

I have never seen a goddam moray eel in good humor. Ever.

Not all the time!

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Diving with Submariner,Sinn U1,Turtle & PADI

Postby bedlam » March 18th 2017, 4:28am

Sidebar; that the first Mares Icon HD I've seen in the wild...he must have more money than he knows what to do with. He's paid three times what the features are worth to get a colour screen.
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Re: Diving with Submariner,Sinn U1,Turtle & PADI

Postby Kahuna74 » March 18th 2017, 6:02am

bedlam wrote:A few things;

- The fixed length of dive extensions is partly the problem. The much bigger issue is they don't adjust at depth, so even if it fits the wetsuit in the boat it won't secure the watch at depth as the suit compresses as you go down.

- He makes the point that a rubber strap is a better option than a bracelet. Rolex doesn't offer a dive strap.

- bezels with low grip should be light. Grippier designs need to be harder to turn. One isn't better than the other, though bumps, cutouts and scallops like you find on Breitlings, Victorinox, Monster, OS200, and Eco-zilla are a bad idea.

- there is no way water pressure was the cause of a bezel being harder to turn underwater, its not sealed at the bottom so water will be acting on all of its surfaces equally.

- 904L stainless steel is not more corrosion resistant than 316 to sea-water at normal temperatures.

- recent evidence indicates the deep stop he described is no longer recommended.

- The Rolex Submariner does not meet the ISO 6425 standard.

Surprisingly the guy decided the best dive watch is the only one that doesn't meet the dive standard or offer a dive strap. Me thinks the Sub was his favourite long before he hit the water for that test.

Awesome pics :-)



Awesome post. As I have said before, I have never been diving with anyone wearing a Rolex. Only watch that has ever failed me while diving was a Seiko Turtle. I took my Eco-zilla once and never again. Today I rely on my Dive computer more then either of the two Casio's I wear diving. And my Dive buddy.
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Re: Diving with Submariner,Sinn U1,Turtle & PADI

Postby lexvil » March 18th 2017, 7:41am

A lot of words that boil down to, people are impressed with my Rolex, Seiko not so much.
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Re: Diving with Submariner,Sinn U1,Turtle & PADI

Postby Kahuna74 » March 18th 2017, 8:40am

lexvil wrote:A lot of words that boil down to, people are impressed with my Rolex, Seiko not so much.


yay, sure its all about your Rolex.
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Re: Diving with Submariner,Sinn U1,Turtle & PADI

Postby lexvil » March 18th 2017, 8:47am

Kahuna74 wrote:
lexvil wrote:A lot of words that boil down to, people are impressed with my Rolex, Seiko not so much.


yay, sure its all about your Rolex.

Perhaps a lesson in sarcasm is in order.
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Re: Diving with Submariner,Sinn U1,Turtle & PADI

Postby bedlam » March 18th 2017, 9:02am

lexvil wrote:A lot of words that boil down to, people are impressed with my Rolex, Seiko not so much.

Yup, exactly how it reads to me too.

Nice to see you back Lex
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Re: Diving with Submariner,Sinn U1,Turtle & PADI

Postby lexvil » March 18th 2017, 8:39pm

bedlam wrote:
lexvil wrote:A lot of words that boil down to, people are impressed with my Rolex, Seiko not so much.

Yup, exactly how it reads to me too.

Nice to see you back Lex

Hi Carl, I can't post pics here, laptop says it's banned for life but I can log in with the iPad. Still diving almost every week.
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Re: Diving with Submariner,Sinn U1,Turtle & PADI

Postby bedlam » March 19th 2017, 3:52am

lexvil wrote:
bedlam wrote:
lexvil wrote:A lot of words that boil down to, people are impressed with my Rolex, Seiko not so much.

Yup, exactly how it reads to me too.

Nice to see you back Lex

Hi Carl, I can't post pics here, laptop says it's banned for life but I can log in with the iPad. Still diving almost every week.

You don't look banned?

Good to see you are keeping wet 8-)
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Re: Diving with Submariner,Sinn U1,Turtle & PADI

Postby eddiea » March 19th 2017, 4:17am

bedlam wrote:A few things; - The Rolex Submariner does not meet the ISO 6425 standard.

I'm always confused about this , specifically what parameters of the ISO 6425 are not meet by the Submariner ? or is it that Rolex simply does not submit their watches for ISO 6425 certification?
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Re: Diving with Submariner,Sinn U1,Turtle & PADI

Postby bedlam » March 19th 2017, 5:10am

eddiea wrote:
bedlam wrote:A few things; - The Rolex Submariner does not meet the ISO 6425 standard.

I'm always confused about this , specifically what parameters of the ISO 6425 are not meet by the Submariner ? or is it that Rolex simply does not submit their watches for ISO 6425 certification?

The Sub doesn't qualify

For an analog watch ISO 6425 requires a a unidirectional bezel with a minute track up to 60 mins and each 5 min mark designated clearly. The 5 min markers are fine on the Sub but it only has minutes marked to 15 instead of 60.

The Submariner design has been pretty much unchanged since 1954 and the ISO standards process came into being in 1987. I'm guessing they don't want to mess with the design to meet the standard and figure you can buy a SeaDweller if you want a standards compliant dive watch.
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Re: Diving with Submariner,Sinn U1,Turtle & PADI

Postby Kahuna74 » March 19th 2017, 6:00am

lexvil wrote:
Kahuna74 wrote:
lexvil wrote:A lot of words that boil down to, people are impressed with my Rolex, Seiko not so much.


yay, sure its all about your Rolex.

Perhaps a lesson in sarcasm is in order.


Perhaps it is a lesson in double sarcasm,,,
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Re: Diving with Submariner,Sinn U1,Turtle & PADI

Postby iwasbanned » March 19th 2017, 6:44am

bedlam wrote:For an analog watch ISO 6425 requires a a unidirectional bezel with a minute track up to 60 mins and each 5 min mark designated clearly. The 5 min markers are fine on the Sub but it only has minutes marked to 15 instead of 60.


Do you know of an official interpretation of the spec we can refer too? The spec as written:

If it is a rotating bezel, it shall have a minute scale going up to 60 min. The markings indicating every 5 min shall be clearly indicated. The markings on the dial, if existing, shall be coordinated with those of the preselecting device and shall be clearly visible.

But I've seen it interpreted as below, which also makes sense to me:

An ISO 6425 scuba dive watch must have a unidirectional bezel that has a minimum of a marking at every 5 minute mark as well as a pre-select marker to indicate a specific minute marking.


This Citizen watch is clearly designated as ISO 6425 certified, but if the spec is interpreted as needing every minute marked on the bezel it would be a misrepresentation.

Image

The monster is also marked as certified, but also doesn't have every minute marked:

Image
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Re: Diving with Submariner,Sinn U1,Turtle & PADI

Postby TemerityB » March 19th 2017, 7:02am

No dog in this hunt; I just want to say how amazingly cool it is to be part of a watch forum where dive watches are discussed by people who actually dive.
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Re: Diving with Submariner,Sinn U1,Turtle & PADI

Postby bedlam » March 19th 2017, 7:34am

iwasbanned wrote:
bedlam wrote:For an analog watch ISO 6425 requires a a unidirectional bezel with a minute track up to 60 mins and each 5 min mark designated clearly. The 5 min markers are fine on the Sub but it only has minutes marked to 15 instead of 60.


Do you know of an official interpretation of the spec we can refer too? The spec as written:

If it is a rotating bezel, it shall have a minute scale going up to 60 min. The markings indicating every 5 min shall be clearly indicated. The markings on the dial, if existing, shall be coordinated with those of the preselecting device and shall be clearly visible.

But I've seen it interpreted as below, which also makes sense to me:

An ISO 6425 scuba dive watch must have a unidirectional bezel that has a minimum of a marking at every 5 minute mark as well as a pre-select marker to indicate a specific minute marking.

I don't care how many ways its interpreted. The language is plain.

If companies use the diver's spec on their watches and don't meet it then they run a risk. I have no idea how closely any standards are monitored, or if they are enforced. That people take license doesn't change anything.

And the Monster is a mess in lots of ways, not just its bezel markings.

In the end the point of the bezel is to allow easy tracking of time underwater. More markings make it easier and 60 marks meets the standard. Lots of good watches don't comply though. One of my favourite dive watches, the Supermarine, doesn't comply with the standard either.
Last edited by bedlam on March 19th 2017, 7:38am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Diving with Submariner,Sinn U1,Turtle & PADI

Postby SaoGage » March 19th 2017, 7:38am

TemerityB wrote:No dog in this hunt; I just want to say how amazingly cool it is to be part of a watch forum where dive watches are discussed by people who actually dive.


Bullshit walks, man. We have the real deal here.
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Re: Diving with Submariner,Sinn U1,Turtle & PADI

Postby bedlam » March 19th 2017, 7:42am

ISO 6425 compliant bezels

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Diving with Submariner,Sinn U1,Turtle & PADI

Postby iwasbanned » March 19th 2017, 7:48am

Looks like the turtle which is also marked as certified doesn't meet the spec:

Image
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Re: Diving with Submariner,Sinn U1,Turtle & PADI

Postby bedlam » March 19th 2017, 7:48am

This one is line ball, if you count the number as a marker.

Image
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Re: Diving with Submariner,Sinn U1,Turtle & PADI

Postby bedlam » March 19th 2017, 7:49am

iwasbanned wrote:Looks like the turtle which is also marked as certified doesn't meet the spec:

Image

Yeah, the markers are swallowed. Hadn't noticed before. That bezel style is used a lot by Seiko. Its not perfectly correct, but it is easy to read.

That is the SKX style bezel that's been around for ever. Its going to come up with stuff designed before the standard came into being. Same issue with the Sub.
Last edited by bedlam on March 19th 2017, 7:55am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Diving with Submariner,Sinn U1,Turtle & PADI

Postby iwasbanned » March 19th 2017, 7:55am

bedlam wrote:This one is line ball, if you count the number as a marker.

Image


Sorry, what do you mean by line ball? Not familiar with the term.

Doesn't look like that watch has Divers XXXm on it though, so it isn't certified. In any case, since it doesn't clearly mark the 5 minute markings, it isn't ISO compliant.
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Re: Diving with Submariner,Sinn U1,Turtle & PADI

Postby iwasbanned » March 19th 2017, 7:57am

bedlam wrote:
That is the SKX style bezel that's been around for ever. Its going to come up with stuff designed before the standard came into being. Same issue with the Sub.


You don't think it's an issue that they use "Divers XXXm" on the dial, indicating ISO certification, but aren't compliant? Seems invicta-esque.
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