ETA Valjoux 7751 with Chronograph, Moonphase and Triple Date

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ETA Valjoux 7751 with Chronograph, Moonphase and Triple Date

Postby timeisyours » January 20th 2017, 2:19pm

Dear all, we, two friends from Bern, Switzerland started our project about ten month ago and our goal is to make a change in the way how Swiss Made Automatic watches are sold nowadays. We do offer transparency, an elegant design and high value for accesible prices. All our watches come with an ETA Valjoux 7751 with Chronograph, Moonphase and Full Calendar, 41 mm, 2 calf leather straps with quick release system - 2 Years of warranty - Shipping and Service worldwide - starting at Swiss Francs 1'229.00 !!

What do you think about the watches and the idea of putting a high quality watch on Kickstarter? Many Thanks and Best Regards, timeisyours (Roger & Florian) - And by the way, this is not just because we would like to sell something, we really would like to hear your honest opinion - Thank you very much!

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Many Thanks and Best Regards from Switzerland

Roger & Florian
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Re: ETA Valjoux 7751 with Chronograph, Moonphase and Triple

Postby conjurer » January 20th 2017, 2:29pm

That's the most beautyfull wartche I have ever saw!
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Re: ETA Valjoux 7751 with Chronograph, Moonphase and Triple

Postby Racer-X » January 20th 2017, 2:39pm

Very nice. The white is a looker. Seems not a bad price with that movement but over my comfort level on a new micro. Lugs look a bit long and 13.6mm pretty thick. What is the lug to lug measurement?

Kickstarter page
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1953974228/zahnd-and-kormann-exceptional-swiss-automatic-watc

Website
http://www.timeisyours.ch/en/

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Re: ETA Valjoux 7751 with Chronograph, Moonphase and Triple

Postby MKTheVintageBloke » January 20th 2017, 2:57pm

I really like the looks of it, only in the wrist shot it looks like the watch has a large lug to lug distance- or your wrist is really small. Or it's due to the camera used (if smartphone, watches tend to look larger in wrist shots, due to the construction of the lens making the object being focused on appear larger than it really is) to take the pic.

I'm not a fan of the all-black version, but I do find the "panda" and "inverse panda" versions really nice.
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Re: ETA Valjoux 7751 with Chronograph, Moonphase and Triple

Postby jason_recliner » January 20th 2017, 3:02pm

Completely meh. You have contributed literally nothing to watch design.
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Re: ETA Valjoux 7751 with Chronograph, Moonphase and Triple

Postby codguy » January 20th 2017, 4:22pm

YAWN
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Re: ETA Valjoux 7751 with Chronograph, Moonphase and Triple

Postby foghorn » January 20th 2017, 4:24pm

"ETA stands for Elegance, Technology and Accuracy."



From where did you glean the above info.?



And which one of you is a watchmaker? Who will do your warranty work?
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Re: ETA Valjoux 7751 with Chronograph, Moonphase and Triple

Postby biglove » January 20th 2017, 4:44pm

Not a fan of the blue or black. Nothing wrong with the panda/reverse panda other than a rather steep asking price.

Knock $1K USD off and you might well have a decent offering IF you put it on a nice bracelet.

No way in hell I would cough up that kind of cash for a KS microbrand in the hopes that you won't run away with the cash.
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Re: ETA Valjoux 7751 with Chronograph, Moonphase and Triple

Postby Racer-X » January 20th 2017, 5:02pm

biglove wrote:...Knock $1K USD off and you might well have a decent offering IF you put it on a nice bracelet.


At $1,200 USD with a $500 movement that might be tough :)
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Re: ETA Valjoux 7751 with Chronograph, Moonphase and Triple

Postby biglove » January 20th 2017, 5:06pm

Racer-X wrote:
biglove wrote:...Knock $1K USD off and you might well have a decent offering IF you put it on a nice bracelet.


At $1,200 USD with a $500 movement that might be tough :)


For what they pay for Chinese case/parts and assembly, there would still be profit, just not a fat 100% markup.
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Re: ETA Valjoux 7751 with Chronograph, Moonphase and Triple

Postby TemerityB » January 20th 2017, 5:09pm

timeisyours wrote:Dear all, we, two friends from Bern, Switzerland started our project about ten month ago and our goal is to make a change in the way how Swiss Made Automatic watches are sold nowadays.


Who complained?
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Re: ETA Valjoux 7751 with Chronograph, Moonphase and Triple

Postby MKTheVintageBloke » January 20th 2017, 7:25pm

biglove wrote:No way in hell I would cough up that kind of cash for a KS microbrand in the hopes that you won't run away with the cash.


I agree. I wouldn't either. I also agree with the points made by foghorn- so far, we know the company is two blokes, but nothing more. I don't think that anyone would like to end up with a situation, where the company does not provide a warranty repair, or where it goes belly up before the warranty ends, and a factory flaw reveals itself. Any decent watchmaker will fix a 7751, but at the same time, no watch owner would like to pay for removing a malfunction, that was not their fault. Less euphemistically, if that would have happened to me, I'd get pretty fucking irate.

Now, directly to the OP:

While as I've said before, I like the "panda" versions, and that said, I have nothing against the watch itself, there are a few things I'd like to elaborate on. I wouldn't suggest that Chinese cases were used, unless I had evidence of that. So, chaps, you have an opportunity to show the transparency- where are the cases and dials made? Do you make them yourselves, or do you use an external supplier?

The other thing is my opinion of your choice of the first watch project. I think that a chronograph is an ambitious project to start with, and if I may offer my brutally honest opinion: too fucking ambitious. If you want to build confidence, I think you should have started with something simple, like a time-only dress or casual watch powered by a Sellita SW-300 (preferably), or something from Soprod (so that it isn't another 2824 or SW-200).
Many companies have started their life in sheds, but I think you try to jump to quickly from the shed to competing with the "big guys" of that price segment, and with that being only a Kickstarter project, I don't think you stand much of a chance in the long run. I hope that I'm wrong, since I generally wish people well. But really, it isn't a short way from a rat-infested garden shed to Baselworld or SIHH.

A simple question: what can you offer me, what an established company can't?

Last, but not least, I think you should have sought opinions of the WIS before you started the project, and before the first prototypes were made. That's because- pardon me, but it can't be said all that politely- if you fuck up, this would mean that you have flushed a substantial amount of cash down the drain.

All in all, I wish you best of luck, and look forward to how you respond to the points made in this thread.
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Re: ETA Valjoux 7751 with Chronograph, Moonphase and Triple

Postby conjurer » January 20th 2017, 8:06pm

MKTheVintageBloke wrote:A simple question: what can you offer me, what an established company can't?



Well and sincinctly put, Mr. Bloke. This is the question that should be asked of all kickstarters, micros, etc. Once in a great while something comes down the micro pike that is interesting, or well-priced, or something. But generally, two guys trying to sell a watch in the internet is pretty snooze-worthy.
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Re: ETA Valjoux 7751 with Chronograph, Moonphase and Triple

Postby timeisyours » January 21st 2017, 7:54am

Dear All, first of all we would like to thank you very much for all of your comments and the time taken to post them.... Hmmmm, where to start.... =0)

conjurer wrote:That's the most beautyfull wartche I have ever saw!


Thank you very much for that! We are very happy to hear that you like our watches.

Racer-X wrote:Very nice. The white is a looker. Seems not a bad price with that movement but over my comfort level on a new micro. Lugs look a bit long and 13.6mm pretty thick. What is the lug to lug measurement?

Kickstarter page
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1953974228/zahnd-and-kormann-exceptional-swiss-automatic-watc

Website
http://www.timeisyours.ch/en/


Lug to Lug: 20 mm

foghorn wrote:"ETA stands for Elegance, Technology and Accuracy."



From where did you glean the above info.?



And which one of you is a watchmaker? Who will do your warranty work?


The info about what ETA does stand for is from the homepage of the Swatch Group ;0) And unfortunately none of us is a watchmaker, me, Roger, I am working in a company who is delivering the Swiss Watch industry. Our Switzerland based supplier does get the movements directly from ETA and from other watch manufacturers in Switzerland. The warranty work will be done from our supplier in Biel, Switzerland.

biglove wrote:Not a fan of the blue or black. Nothing wrong with the panda/reverse panda other than a rather steep asking price.

Knock $1K USD off and you might well have a decent offering IF you put it on a nice bracelet.

No way in hell I would cough up that kind of cash for a KS microbrand in the hopes that you won't run away with the cash.


We do understand this input but as mentioned from Racer-X this is just not possible as we are paying close to USD 900.00 to get one watch produced without handling fees and storage costs.

biglove wrote:
Racer-X wrote:
biglove wrote:...Knock $1K USD off and you might well have a decent offering IF you put it on a nice bracelet.


At $1,200 USD with a $500 movement that might be tough :)


For what they pay for Chinese case/parts and assembly, there would still be profit, just not a fat 100% markup.


As mentioned before we are paying close to 900 USD our self to get the watch produced and there are fees we have to add on top. So over all we are calculating production costs of around Swiss Francs 1'229.00 including a 10% risk margin, which is exactly the starting price on Kickstarter. All our watches are and will be assembled and and quality checked in Switzerland... And yes it is true, the case and most of the other parts are ordered in China. But a lot of the most renowned brands do order parts or produce parts in far east and are still very good products. If you judge a product by origin of parts or better to say if the parts are from far east or not you won't get that far.
TemerityB wrote:
timeisyours wrote:Dear all, we, two friends from Bern, Switzerland started our project about ten month ago and our goal is to make a change in the way how Swiss Made Automatic watches are sold nowadays.


Who complained?


That's a good one ;0)) Well a lot of people do complain about the prices of the "Swiss Made" watches and we are trying to show that you do not need to spend more than USD 2'500.00 - 3'000.00 to get a quality watch.


MKTheVintageBloke wrote:
biglove wrote:No way in hell I would cough up that kind of cash for a KS microbrand in the hopes that you won't run away with the cash.


I agree. I wouldn't either. I also agree with the points made by foghorn- so far, we know the company is two blokes, but nothing more. I don't think that anyone would like to end up with a situation, where the company does not provide a warranty repair, or where it goes belly up before the warranty ends, and a factory flaw reveals itself. Any decent watchmaker will fix a 7751, but at the same time, no watch owner would like to pay for removing a malfunction, that was not their fault. Less euphemistically, if that would have happened to me, I'd get pretty fucking irate.

Now, directly to the OP:

While as I've said before, I like the "panda" versions, and that said, I have nothing against the watch itself, there are a few things I'd like to elaborate on. I wouldn't suggest that Chinese cases were used, unless I had evidence of that. So, chaps, you have an opportunity to show the transparency- where are the cases and dials made? Do you make them yourselves, or do you use an external supplier?

The other thing is my opinion of your choice of the first watch project. I think that a chronograph is an ambitious project to start with, and if I may offer my brutally honest opinion: too fucking ambitious. If you want to build confidence, I think you should have started with something simple, like a time-only dress or casual watch powered by a Sellita SW-300 (preferably), or something from Soprod (so that it isn't another 2824 or SW-200).
Many companies have started their life in sheds, but I think you try to jump to quickly from the shed to competing with the "big guys" of that price segment, and with that being only a Kickstarter project, I don't think you stand much of a chance in the long run. I hope that I'm wrong, since I generally wish people well. But really, it isn't a short way from a rat-infested garden shed to Baselworld or SIHH.

A simple question: what can you offer me, what an established company can't?

Last, but not least, I think you should have sought opinions of the WIS before you started the project, and before the first prototypes were made. That's because- pardon me, but it can't be said all that politely- if you fuck up, this would mean that you have flushed a substantial amount of cash down the drain.

All in all, I wish you best of luck, and look forward to how you respond to the points made in this thread.


As mentioned before, the parts, next to the movement, do come from China and non of us is a professional watchmaker. Please feel free to also visit our homepage were we are offer you full transparency about the parts used. Regarding service and warranty: The watches do come with a two year warranty and our supplier does have service points all over the world (may be not everywhere). In worst case you would have to send your watch back to Switzerland to get it checked and repaired.

Yes it is true, the project is very ambitious and maybe to fucking ambitious to use your words ;0) And yes it is not cheap is as well but that's something we knew from the very beginning. To put the cards on the table, if we fail, we will both lose about 10k, which is, yes a shit load of money. And we are both not rich. But we look at it as an investment to learn and to grow. Nowadays everyone is talking about failing. What about learning. And how many chances do you get in live to try something like this, something on your own giving you the chance to look back when you are grey and old and to say "at least I tried it".... #amen... But next to that, we could have maybe spent the have of the money, fly over to china, get the cheapest parts possible gathered together and produce a 100 - 200 Dollar and called it a luxury watch. But we decided to go another way and we already learned that much (personally and professionally) that it does not really feel like failing.... Of course it sucks if we do fail, now one does like to fail but we rather fail than not trying it... And by the way, we do have our prototypes so we don't go home with nothing ;0)

Many Thanks and Best Regards from Switzerland,
Roger & Florian
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Re: ETA Valjoux 7751 with Chronograph, Moonphase and Triple

Postby bobbee » January 21st 2017, 8:10am

I too like the looks of the panda's, but you lost me with this:

As mentioned before, the parts, next to the movement, do come from China and non of us is a professional watchmaker.


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Re: ETA Valjoux 7751 with Chronograph, Moonphase and Triple

Postby Racer-X » January 21st 2017, 8:56am

timeisyours wrote: Lug to Lug: 20 mm


No, it's not.
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Re: ETA Valjoux 7751 with Chronograph, Moonphase and Triple

Postby MKTheVintageBloke » January 21st 2017, 9:12am

I think you confused lug to lug distance with lug width. The latter is 20mm, but what's the lug to lug distance? For 40-42mm watches it's usually circa 46-50mm...

If everything except the movement comes from China, then here's what's pissing me off with the "Swiss Made" label- it's effectively just a Swiss movement, yet there's "Swiss Made" on the dial! Exactly why I wholeheartedly agree with H. Moser & Cie. protesting against the new laws- they're way not strict enough. By the way, does a watch with the movement being the only thing Swiss qualify for the Swiss Made label?

Nevertheless, I'm glad you're admitting the use of Chinese parts- while I might not like it, I can't accuse you of dishonesty. At least you're not trying to hide it.

But just like Bob said, you lose me as well with the very same thing- Chinese parts and the fact that none of you is actually a watchmaker. If I were to create a watch company, the very first thing that I'd do is to find a watchmaker who'd work with me!

Dunno how the deal with the external supplier for providing the warranty repairs looks like, but I have a question: the contract expires, a few watches are sent back and await warranty repair, and the company doesn't want to extend the contract. What do you do?

Guys, you can't have something that important done outside the company! By Jove! I hope that one day you get to source the parts from local suppliers - I don't think Switzerland is exactly short on them - and move the warranty service (and service in general) to within the company. I get it, you're just starting up, but here's why I have said, that your project is too fucking ambitious- you've invested too much into a watch, where you're cutting corners on obtaining the parts, and did not spend enough on all the facilities/services a watch company should have. Who like who, but you guys, as people who studied economy, should know that. That, and the basics of management- that you don't start a project without all the necessary materials. Also, that's why I've said you should have started with something simpler, with a time-only movement- because then, I don't think you'd have to even think of China. Again, I wish you well, and therefore I can only hope, that it doesn't turn out that you bit off more than you can chew.

For now, you lost me- but then again, don't give up. When you have an idea for the next project, share it- and I'll gladly provide my opinion.
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Re: ETA Valjoux 7751 with Chronograph, Moonphase and Triple

Postby codguy » January 21st 2017, 9:17am

timeisyours wrote:
Well a lot of people do complain about the prices of the "Swiss Made" watches and we are trying to show that you do not need to spend more than USD 2'500.00 - 3'000.00 to get a quality watch.
Many Thanks and Best Regards from Switzerland,
Roger & Florian



Not to purposely shit in your thread, there are many opportunities to purchase 7751 wartches for well under $3000 here in the states.


Here is my older Armand Nicholet SWI wartch I purchase brand new for around $2,100 that came shipped with a quality watch winder (and a free hat!!)

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Though I personally don't find your "release" appealing, I wish you two good luck in your endeavor.
.

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