Yuck! Ruger LCP .380 Buyer beware

Re: Yuck! Ruger LCP .380 Buyer beware

Postby rallycat » January 24th 2013, 3:05pm

Hawk wrote:
rallycat wrote:
Awesome, Hawk. Thank you. I'm going to contact them this week.

I notice they've sold out of slides which makes me think too many of us who bought this gun experienced the same issue. The end of my slide literally blew off while shooting. Don't believe the Shamwow guy. Germans can make crap like anyone else.

The Germans have made a cottage industry out of the creative use of zinc castings in firearms parts - I'm not 100% sure the P8 is one but it wouldn't surprise me. Word on the forums is that it is, indeed, a pot metal slide.

The RG revolver was a wonderful but grim example of this.

The best thing ever said about the RG (and Reck) engineers is that they pissed into the same sewer as the H und K engineers. In my view emulating H&K isn't that high of a goal. I did admire the Korth revolver though.

And I have the guilty pleasure of sometimes toting a P7PSP.


Well said. My Reck would have to be the Aeromatic 1912 of the pistol world. My prize is still the P38 grandad brought back from the war. Says he got it from a German major. I dunno. The old man brought back such a variety of stuff that I think he mainly just traded things around. I also have the certificate, which notes the serial #, authorizing him to bring it home - dated on my bday. IMO it's still as nice to shoot as many modern guns.
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Re: Yuck! Ruger LCP .380 Buyer beware

Postby codguy » January 24th 2013, 6:29pm

Hawk wrote:Milt Sparks VM-2


The best period!!
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Re: Yuck! Ruger LCP .380 Buyer beware

Postby wire-paladin » January 24th 2013, 9:36pm

There's are many finely made handguns . However the ability to get a well placed round in the chest can sometimes be difficult. The 45acp cuts a wide swath.
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Re: Yuck! Ruger LCP .380 Buyer beware

Postby Hawk » January 25th 2013, 4:35am

wire-paladin wrote:There's are many finely made handguns . However the ability to get a well placed round in the chest can sometimes be difficult. The 45acp cuts a wide swath.

Not to go all pedantic mathematical assholehat on you here. But if you miss with a .355 diameter 380 you're going to miss with a .451 diameter .45. The difference in radius is a rip roaring 1/20 of one inch.

Much better one learn to hit what one is aiming at than to rely on .05" making the difference.
When two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly halfway between them. It is possible for one side to be simply wrong.

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Re: Yuck! Ruger LCP .380 Buyer beware

Postby codguy » January 25th 2013, 6:20am

Hawk wrote:
Not to go all pedantic mathematical assholehat on you here. But if you miss with a .355 diameter 380 you're going to miss with a .451 diameter .45. The difference in radius is a rip roaring 1/20 of one inch.


Two words.....wound channel. <----- (what WP was talking about).
It is not about the unfired bullet diameter but the expanded one (and how much force behind it to reliably allow it to do so).

This topic is much more refreshing IMO than dealing with the current wave of trolls that magnetically join here.
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Re: Yuck! Ruger LCP .380 Buyer beware

Postby eddiea » January 25th 2013, 6:39am

boscoe wrote:
But the bottomline - and the reason for the post - is to give folks here a no-shitter on the Ruger, which really sucks no matter what you might read. The Double Action "long trigger pull" on this pistol is a horror. You can get relatively tight groupings, though....if you take a target stance and slow fire (if the weapon will let you). This is NOT what you want in a self-protection gun.
Rant and warning over.

Thanks for the tip Dan...I carry a Beretta Px4 Storm in the 9mm format (I believe they make a .40 S&W too) excellent piece, a joy to use.
“I want to get to Key West and away from it all"…Papa.
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Re: Yuck! Ruger LCP .380 Buyer beware

Postby boscoe » January 25th 2013, 6:43am

Obamania looking to outlaw the Storm. I'm thinking of getting one just because...

And it is a nice weapon
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Re: Yuck! Ruger LCP .380 Buyer beware

Postby Hawk » January 25th 2013, 6:54am

codguy wrote:
Hawk wrote:
Not to go all pedantic mathematical assholehat on you here. But if you miss with a .355 diameter 380 you're going to miss with a .451 diameter .45. The difference in radius is a rip roaring 1/20 of one inch.


Two words.....wound channel. <----- (what WP was talking about).
It is not about the unfired bullet diameter but the expanded one (and how much force behind it to reliably allow it to do so).

This topic is much more refreshing IMO than dealing with the current wave of trolls that magnetically join here.


Ah. Wound channel - I hadn't twigged to that when I read what he wrote about the difficulty of getting a good shot center of mass. Even so a well placed poorly expanding projectile would generally be more effective than a poorly placed nicely expanded projectile.

To veer even further off topic there's an interesting "gotcha" that brewed when the .45ACP underwent a resurgence during the '94 magazine restrictions: the trend toward ever smaller pistols. Damn near every ballistics table you can google up will show the .45 tested in a 5" barrel. The numbers get somewhat more anemic out of a 3" Ultra CDP or similar.

Expansion of 45 out of a snub is "iffy". But one thing is for sure: it won't be getting any smaller and the .40 SW has to grow just a tad. My shriveled 1911-ish is chambered in .40 but if I were to be honest I didn't much care - STI just makes more of their 2011 series in .40 and I bought what was in stock at the time. To me it makes more sense in a shorter firearm but it's not enough to obsess over.

Gratuitous pron:
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Re: Yuck! Ruger LCP .380 Buyer beware

Postby fatman » January 25th 2013, 6:59am

codguy wrote:
Hawk wrote:
Not to go all pedantic mathematical assholehat on you here. But if you miss with a .355 diameter 380 you're going to miss with a .451 diameter .45. The difference in radius is a rip roaring 1/20 of one inch.


Two words.....wound channel. <----- (what WP was talking about).
It is not about the unfired bullet diameter but the expanded one (and how much force behind it to reliably allow it to do so).

This topic is much more refreshing IMO than dealing with the current wave of trolls that magnetically join here.


While I am not nearly as versed in guns as some here I happen to agree that expanded lead and force behind do make a difference. My preference is 40 S&W . It is my feeling that there is enough force and caliber to be affective and not such a rowdy round to keep on Target.

I also have enjoyed reading this thread as well. Even though the trolls do provide some entertainment it is not as useful.
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Re: Yuck! Ruger LCP .380 Buyer beware

Postby Hawk » January 25th 2013, 7:01am

boscoe wrote:Obamania looking to outlaw the Storm. I'm thinking of getting one just because...

And it is a nice weapon

The PX-4 / CX-4?

What the hell did that poor thing do to get singled out?
The CX-4 fires a handgun round fercryinoutloud.
When two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly halfway between them. It is possible for one side to be simply wrong.

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Re: Yuck! Ruger LCP .380 Buyer beware

Postby fatman » January 25th 2013, 7:06am

Speaking of keeping on Target, I once owned a S&W 44mag with a 7" something barrel. The first time I went to put rounds through it I thought it would be difficult to control. It wasn't at all. Very smooth and controllable. One of the smoothest guns I have ever shot. It was just a huge gun.
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Re: Yuck! Ruger LCP .380 Buyer beware

Postby boscoe » January 25th 2013, 9:58am

Hawk wrote:
boscoe wrote:Obamania looking to outlaw the Storm. I'm thinking of getting one just because...

And it is a nice weapon

The PX-4 / CX-4?

What the hell did that poor thing do to get singled out?
The CX-4 fires a handgun round fercryinoutloud.




Clip size. Takes a 13-bullet clip. Look at the details of Boxer Feinstein gun control bill. Bans 150 weapons, including the storm
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Re: Yuck! Ruger LCP .380 Buyer beware

Postby dcfis » January 26th 2013, 3:34pm

I, like Boscoe am very comfortable with the .380 ACP especially in the new Hornaday plastic tipped HPs. Im fine with that. I think the LCP is a great gun with a trigger suited for its purpose. Its straight self defense up close and last resort. Like it should be. I however prefer the SW Bodyguard for a light and little carry gun.

The mustangs are epic but, and hear me out. they need a holster and if Im going to holster Im going with my 9 or .40. Not due to round, due to the PITA of having a holster on. For a fanny pack or purse or euro bag they are perfect though and that gun is a heck of a target plinker- If I could afford to target .380.

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Re: Yuck! Ruger LCP .380 Buyer beware

Postby jaw » January 26th 2013, 4:49pm

Hawk wrote:
boscoe wrote:Obamania looking to outlaw the Storm. I'm thinking of getting one just because...

And it is a nice weapon

The PX-4 / CX-4?

What the hell did that poor thing do to get singled out?
The CX-4 fires a handgun round fercryinoutloud.


I've tried the PX-4 Storm Sub-Compact version. Very nice double-single action with adjustable ergonomic features. Still a bit large for daily CC IMO, however. Thankfully NOT on the list.

Excerpts: Bold (mine) stipulation would exclude the PX-4.
All semiautomatic pistols that can accept a detachable magazine and have at least
one military feature: threaded barrel; second pistol grip; barrel shroud; capacity to
accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip; or
semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm.

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/561603/feinstein-automatic-weapons-ban-2013-summary.pdf

List of Firearms Prohibited by Name

Rifles: All AK types, including the following: AK, AK47, AK47S, AK–74, AKM, AKS, ARM,
MAK90, MISR, NHM90, NHM91, Rock River Arms LAR–47, SA85, SA93, Vector Arms AK–
47, VEPR, WASR–10, and WUM, IZHMASH Saiga AK, MAADI AK47 and ARM, Norinco
56S, 56S2, 84S, and 86S, Poly Technologies AK47 and AKS; All AR types, including the
following: AR–10, AR–15, Armalite M15 22LR Carbine, Armalite M15–T, Barrett REC7,
Beretta AR–70, Bushmaster ACR, Bushmaster Carbon 15, Bushmaster MOE series, Bushmaster
XM15, Colt Match Target Rifles, DoubleStar AR rifles, DPMS Tactical Rifles, Heckler & Koch
MR556, Olympic Arms, Remington R–15 rifles, Rock River Arms LAR–15, Sig Sauer SIG516
rifles, Smith & Wesson M&P15 Rifles, Stag Arms AR rifles, Sturm, Ruger & Co. SR556 rifles;
Barrett M107A1; Barrett M82A1; Beretta CX4 Storm; Calico Liberty Series; CETME Sporter;
Daewoo K–1, K–2, Max 1, Max 2, AR 100, and AR 110C; Fabrique Nationale/FN Herstal FAL,
LAR, 22 FNC, 308 Match, L1A1 Sporter, PS90, SCAR, and FS2000; Feather Industries AT–9;
Galil Model AR and Model ARM; Hi-Point Carbine; HK–91, HK–93, HK–94, HK–PSG–1 and
HK USC; Kel-Tec Sub–2000, SU–16, and RFB; SIG AMT, SIG PE–57, Sig Sauer SG 550, and
Sig Sauer SG 551; Springfield Armory SAR–48; Steyr AUG; Sturm, Ruger Mini-14 Tactical
Rife M–14/20CF; All Thompson rifles, including the following: Thompson M1SB, Thompson
T1100D, Thompson T150D, Thompson T1B, Thompson T1B100D, Thompson T1B50D,
Thompson T1BSB, Thompson T1–C, Thompson T1D, Thompson T1SB, Thompson T5,
Thompson T5100D, Thompson TM1, Thompson TM1C; UMAREX UZI Rifle; UZI Mini
Carbine, UZI Model A Carbine, and UZI Model B Carbine; Valmet M62S, M71S, and M78;
Vector Arms UZI Type; Weaver Arms Nighthawk; Wilkinson Arms Linda Carbine.

Pistols: All AK–47 types, including the following: Centurion 39 AK pistol, Draco AK–47 pistol,
HCR AK–47 pistol, IO Inc. Hellpup AK–47 pistol, Krinkov pistol, Mini Draco AK–47 pistol,
Yugo Krebs Krink pistol; All AR–15 types, including the following: American Spirit AR–15
pistol, Bushmaster Carbon 15 pistol, DoubleStar Corporation AR pistol, DPMS AR–15 pistol,
Olympic Arms AR–15 pistol, Rock River Arms LAR 15 pistol; Calico Liberty pistols; DSA
SA58 PKP FAL pistol; Encom MP–9 and MP–45; Heckler & Koch model SP-89 pistol; Intratec
AB–10, TEC–22 Scorpion, TEC–9, and TEC–DC9; Kel-Tec PLR 16 pistol; The following MAC
types: MAC–10, MAC–11; Masterpiece Arms MPA A930 Mini Pistol, MPA460 Pistol, MPA
Tactical Pistol, and MPA Mini Tactical Pistol; Military Armament Corp. Ingram M–11, Velocity
Arms VMAC; Sig Sauer P556 pistol; Sites Spectre; All Thompson types, including the following:
Thompson TA510D, Thompson TA5; All UZI types, including: Micro-UZI.
Shotguns: Franchi LAW–12 and SPAS 12; All IZHMASH Saiga 12 types, including the
following: IZHMASH Saiga 12, IZHMASH Saiga 12S, IZHMASH Saiga 12S EXP–01,
IZHMASH Saiga 12K, IZHMASH Saiga 12K–030, IZHMASH Saiga 12K–040 Taktika;
Streetsweeper; Striker 12.

Belt-fed semiautomatic firearms: All belt-fed semiautomatic firearms including TNW M2HB.
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Re: Yuck! Ruger LCP .380 Buyer beware

Postby boscoe » January 26th 2013, 5:10pm

Yes, I had a mental fart.
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Re: Yuck! Ruger LCP .380 Buyer beware

Postby wottime » January 26th 2013, 8:04pm

fatman wrote:
codguy wrote:
Hawk wrote:
Not to go all pedantic mathematical assholehat on you here. But if you miss with a .355 diameter 380 you're going to miss with a .451 diameter .45. The difference in radius is a rip roaring 1/20 of one inch.


Two words.....wound channel. <----- (what WP was talking about).
It is not about the unfired bullet diameter but the expanded one (and how much force behind it to reliably allow it to do so).

This topic is much more refreshing IMO than dealing with the current wave of trolls that magnetically join here.


While I am not nearly as versed in guns as some here I happen to agree that expanded lead and force behind do make a difference. My preference is 40 S&W . It is my feeling that there is enough force and caliber to be affective and not such a rowdy round to keep on Target.

I also have enjoyed reading this thread as well. Even though the trolls do provide some entertainment it is not as useful.


I, too, have enjoyed this thread. I have a .40 cal. and love it. I have a Glock 22 .40 cal that eats through any ammo I have thrown into it. Also, I have fired the Ruger LCR and LCP and found the LCR more comfortable,by far, to fire. Longer trigger pull on the LCR but was ok with it.

I believe someone else made the point earlier that I agree with, that with the technology of ammo, caliber is not as big of a deal as it used to be. Some of the home defense rounds can definitely do some damage. Picked up a box of .40 cal Hornady's zombie defense rounds for a chuckle, and the local gun store had them cheaper than the regular home defense rounds which is a heck of a bullet. All they are is the Hornady home defense round hollow tip with green polymer fill.

http://www.hornady.com/in-the-news/latest-news/zombie-max-ammunition

Not to go on more, but..... I have an elderly friend of mine that picked up the Colt/Umarex .22 cal 1911 style with the rationale that with the minimal recoil of the .22 he could unload the magazine quickly while keeping site picture with minimal adjustments. Thought that was an interesting take on calibre arguments.
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Re: Yuck! Ruger LCP .380 Buyer beware

Postby wire-paladin » January 26th 2013, 8:34pm

With a hostile situation you have deciseconds and moving targets. Gimme stopping power.Pump action 12ga or 45acp.
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Re: Yuck! Ruger LCP .380 Buyer beware

Postby boscoe » January 27th 2013, 5:31am

wire-paladin wrote:With a hostile situation you have deciseconds and moving targets. Gimme stopping power.Pump action 12ga or 45acp.


LMAO! If I could fit a 12 gauge in my pocket, I wouldn't need to carry. I'd be about 60-foot tall.
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Re: Yuck! Ruger LCP .380 Buyer beware

Postby Hawk » January 27th 2013, 9:28am

boscoe wrote:
wire-paladin wrote:With a hostile situation you have deciseconds and moving targets. Gimme stopping power.Pump action 12ga or 45acp.


LMAO! If I could fit a 12 gauge in my pocket, I wouldn't need to carry. I'd be about 60-foot tall.

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Re: Yuck! Ruger LCP .380 Buyer beware

Postby dcfis » January 27th 2013, 3:29pm

3 shot
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Re: Yuck! Ruger LCP .380 Buyer beware

Postby 32771 » January 28th 2013, 4:43pm

Gander on Lake Mary Blvd.?

"Florida's largest gun shop."

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Re: Yuck! Ruger LCP .380 Buyer beware

Postby boscoe » January 28th 2013, 11:09pm

The same
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