The fake watch industry

The fake watch industry

Postby bedlam » December 4th 2017, 5:10pm

"If I could put a finger on the moment we genuinely fucked ourselves, it was the moment we decided that data was something you could use words like believe or disbelieve around...

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Re: The fake watch industry

Postby robatsu » December 5th 2017, 1:55am

Interesting. Is there evidence that manufacturers are leaving the market because of the proliferation of fakes as the article claims?
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Re: The fake watch industry

Postby bobbee » December 5th 2017, 4:59am

No, fake watches make barely a dent in luxury watch brand sales. Some say it has the opposite effect.
I can spot a fake Panerai with ease, as long as I get to see the movement. Position of balance wheel, finish to balance and screws. Same with most Omega and Rolex. Armed with a small amount of knowledge, fake spotting is easy for most.

Funny how the Swiss are moaning about fakes, when they made fakes of British watches in early to mid 1800's, then fakes of US watches after that.
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Re: The fake watch industry

Postby bedlam » December 5th 2017, 6:48am

bobbee wrote:No, fake watches make barely a dent in luxury watch brand sales. Some say it has the opposite effect.
I can spot a fake Panerai with ease, as long as I get to see the movement. Position of balance wheel, finish to balance and screws. Same with most Omega and Rolex. Armed with a small amount of knowledge, fake spotting is easy for most.

Funny how the Swiss are moaning about fakes, when they made fakes of British watches in early to mid 1800's, then fakes of US watches after that.
Karma is a real bitch, and has a loooong memory!

Correct. The Swiss were the original fakers. Them ruining the American watch industry is something many prefer to forget these days...though the same people will rhetorically spit on the chinese for doing similar things.
"If I could put a finger on the moment we genuinely fucked ourselves, it was the moment we decided that data was something you could use words like believe or disbelieve around...

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Re: The fake watch industry

Postby smellody » December 5th 2017, 7:09am

bedlam wrote:
bobbee wrote:No, fake watches make barely a dent in luxury watch brand sales. Some say it has the opposite effect.
I can spot a fake Panerai with ease, as long as I get to see the movement. Position of balance wheel, finish to balance and screws. Same with most Omega and Rolex. Armed with a small amount of knowledge, fake spotting is easy for most.

Funny how the Swiss are moaning about fakes, when they made fakes of British watches in early to mid 1800's, then fakes of US watches after that.
Karma is a real bitch, and has a loooong memory!

Correct. The Swiss were the original fakers. Them ruining the American watch industry is something many prefer to forget these days...though the same people will rhetorically spit on the chinese for doing similar things.


Swiss matchmaking has a history far older than the Yanks in the North American Colonies.

Hans was tinkering with movements in his workshop all winter centuries before Elgin, Hamilton, and the like.
   
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Re: The fake watch industry

Postby Hawk » December 5th 2017, 8:29am

smellody wrote:
bedlam wrote:
bobbee wrote:No, fake watches make barely a dent in luxury watch brand sales. Some say it has the opposite effect.
I can spot a fake Panerai with ease, as long as I get to see the movement. Position of balance wheel, finish to balance and screws. Same with most Omega and Rolex. Armed with a small amount of knowledge, fake spotting is easy for most.

Funny how the Swiss are moaning about fakes, when they made fakes of British watches in early to mid 1800's, then fakes of US watches after that.
Karma is a real bitch, and has a loooong memory!

Correct. The Swiss were the original fakers. Them ruining the American watch industry is something many prefer to forget these days...though the same people will rhetorically spit on the chinese for doing similar things.


Swiss matchmaking has a history far older than the Yanks in the North American Colonies.

Hans was tinkering with movements in his workshop all winter centuries before Elgin, Hamilton, and the like.


Then came mass manufacturing and excellent quality from the Yanks which provided a rich target for Swiss copy cats. Patek and Breguet weren't the problem - it was a portion of the rest of the country. Hans product cost too much to be a factor but there was enough regional infrastructure to enable a host of cheap jack copy cats.

Same thing happened with firearms out of the Eibar region in Spain and cutlery / firearms from Solingen in Germany. That's why grandpa's old double barrel probably isn't worth a tinker's damn and the potmetal revolver was tossed into the ditch though it came from folks that pissed into the same sewer as H&K.

Old European regional infrastructure could make manufacturing of shoddy quality products by opportunists practical but it wasn't indicative of quality. Most notably the USCBP's regulations on marking date to a period when "Swiss Made" was a pejoritive. They've done a hell of a job reversing the situation but nothing can erase the history.

Similarly Eibar-based skanks were poisonous to North American fine double shotguns. The British managed to hold onto some upscale manufacturers but they were stratospherically priced small production sold to those of the peerage that wouldn't be caught dead with an Eibar exploding damascus product. Much like China the Belgium-based firearms were mostly junk but you could get some really good product if you put Browning in charge.

History != quality. Nor is a lack of history indicative of poor quality. A. Lange was resurrected after invicter with history differing only in that Lange had some shirttail relative in a broom closet somewhere. They didn't even make their first wristwatch until the 1990s. Yet the product by most accounts is pretty decent.
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Re: The fake watch industry

Postby Hawk » December 5th 2017, 8:34am

robatsu wrote:Interesting. Is there evidence that manufacturers are leaving the market because of the proliferation of fakes as the article claims?


There is evidence that manufacturers are leaving the market or committing ritual seppuku by selling to Lalo but it's due to not making a profit. The connection to fakes is at best tenuous.

I don't recall a whole lot of Glycine fakes. Eterna fakes never hit the radar but they did lose one fat customer. Etc.

Counterfeiting is a problem but connecting it to Swiss financial woes is a real stretch.
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Re: The fake watch industry

Postby TemerityB » December 5th 2017, 9:48am

Really great article. And, don't forget, this is America, land of the lazy and greedy - those who decry the lack of American watchmaking need only go back to the so-called quartz crisis, the period when the brands started selling out or giving up in droves once they found out components could be had or produced overseas for a fraction of what mechanical watches were costing to produce. Nobody stuck to their guns - it took the Swiss, and right after that, the Japanese, to convince people that mechanical watches were worth owning after a decade of crap was issued here during the 1970s and early 80s ... and about nine minutes after that, American started braying "too expensive!" and started buying fakes (not to mention "homages") left and right. We have met the enemy, and it is us.
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Re: The fake watch industry

Postby bedlam » December 5th 2017, 5:04pm

smellody wrote:
bedlam wrote:
bobbee wrote:No, fake watches make barely a dent in luxury watch brand sales. Some say it has the opposite effect.
I can spot a fake Panerai with ease, as long as I get to see the movement. Position of balance wheel, finish to balance and screws. Same with most Omega and Rolex. Armed with a small amount of knowledge, fake spotting is easy for most.

Funny how the Swiss are moaning about fakes, when they made fakes of British watches in early to mid 1800's, then fakes of US watches after that.
Karma is a real bitch, and has a loooong memory!

Correct. The Swiss were the original fakers. Them ruining the American watch industry is something many prefer to forget these days...though the same people will rhetorically spit on the chinese for doing similar things./quote]

Swiss matchmaking has a history far older than the Yanks in the North American Colonies.

Hans was tinkering with movements in his workshop all winter centuries before Elgin, Hamilton, and the like.

The Swiss counterfeiting of American (and British) watches is the topic. Which country had the oldest watch manufacturing is entirely a red herring.
"If I could put a finger on the moment we genuinely fucked ourselves, it was the moment we decided that data was something you could use words like believe or disbelieve around...

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